OHSU is pretty darn expensive
Jenson Hagen
I was looking at the Association of American Medical Colleges Tuition and Student Fees Report for 2008-09 and noted the following:
1. Out of 75 publicly funded medical schools, OHSU charged students with resident status more than any other. OHSU charged $36,773 for tuition and fees last year to anyone with Oregon residency. The average overall was $23,606--36% less than OHSU. The mean was $24,809.
2. If you look at the amount charged to non-residents, then 20 private and public schools maintained higher tuition and fees. Still, there were about the same number of schools that charged non-residents less than what OHSU charged students with resident status last academic year.
Here is what OHSU reports on their website:
- Total applications received: 4,500+
- Of the 4,500 applications received, approx. 9% are Oregonians, 91% are non-residents
- Class size: 115
- Of the 115, 70% are residents of Oregon
It's nice to see that we maintain policies that help to get Oregonians into medical school, but should we help to support their academic pursuits a wee bit more?
3:46 p.m.
Oct 25, '09
How much public support does OHSU actually get? I seem to recall that they don't get much.
Oct 25, '09
How much public support does OHSU actually get? I seem to recall that they don't get much.
3.6% per OHSU
5:09 p.m.
Oct 25, '09
One of the contributing causes of the high cost of health care in the US is our system of medical education. It has two fundamental problems: (1) The educational process itself is expensive. That process is determined by accreditation standards. We could probably still produce high quality physicians with a less costly set of accreditation standards? And (2) the limited number of physician training slots in medical schools artificially limits entry into the profession. We do not have a free market in medical education. This gives physicians as a group more control over the payments they receive.
Other countries have different system. For example, writing on her blog from Argentina, Maya Frost, author of “The New Global Student” notes (here):
“Here in Argentina, there is not such a strict admissions policy for medical school. Those who really want to go to medical school can do so. The filtering takes place in the rigorous program itself. Rather than picking only the very top students for admission, they let a big pool of applicants begin. There are many who don’t make it to the finish line, obviously, but it’s not because they weren’t allowed to start.
“Because medical school is free or very low cost in other countries compared to the options in the United States, nations like Argentina can train a lot of doctors and other professionals each year. (Buenos Aires has the highest number of psychologists per capita than any city in the world.) When there are more doctors per capita and less demand per doctor, there is more access and more time spent per patient.
“Of course, this also means that becoming a doctor abroad rarely leads to the high incomes physicians in the States have come to expect. Then again, they don’t have a mountain of student loans to repay, nor do they have to shell out big-time for insurance policies to protect them from lawsuits. The system doesn’t allow for huge pay-outs to those who sue, so this level of insurance is unnecessary.”
6:01 p.m.
Oct 25, '09
OHSU is a gem that I am proud my tax dollars support at least in some small way. More public support of OHSU would be nice too.
8:57 p.m.
Oct 25, '09
OHSU is on the leading edge of an unfortunate trend here in Oregon: public support for higher education is diminishing as a share of their costs, so that in-state tuition is higher than most states, and particularly high among comparable public institions in our neighoring states.
Don't get me wrong; I have two sons at the University of Oregon (one just started law school) and compared to private schools or out-of-state schools, it is a bargain price for the education you get. But it is still a much bigger hit than in most states.
Oct 25, '09
Yah. Expectations. Multi hundred thousand dollar salaries AFTER overhead. That is what we are expected to deliver these men and women for the rest of their lives after the initial loan payment is paid off (or forgiven, as Obama's people wish to now institute).
Oct 25, '09
Maybe we should also be asking why OHSU costs so much relative to other publicly-funded medical schools?
Oct 25, '09
rw commented: Yah. Expectations. Multi hundred thousand dollar salaries AFTER overhead. That is what we are expected to deliver these men and women for the rest of their lives after the initial loan payment is paid off
First of all, salaries are usually EARNED - not 'delivered'... (and most doctors only earn their salaries for the rest of their careers, not the rest of their lives)
Second, a medical education is a minimum of 8 years of education to as many as 12 years of training/residency for some specialties - 'the initial loan' can range from $100K to $400K+ depending on if a doctor pursues a specialty. It can take decades to pay off the loans - think of it as a second mortgage.
Specialists obviously make more - but the figures I found show primary care physicians more often than not make well less than $200K annually (unless they live in NYC, SF, or other area with high cost of living). It sounds like a lot but considering the investment of one's time in years of training plus the expense which essentially adds a second mortgage payment to a person's regular living expenses for 10 to 20 years (which could be half a doctor's medical career) - it's not the unseemly amount you seem to believe it is.
(I'm not a doctor...)
Oct 26, '09
Good old Alcytroll. I work in the health field and lived for years with a Populist doctor fellow. Alcy, I say this to your spew: whaaaaatever.
Oct 26, '09
This annoys me! What would be the next thing? They will not accept students. Where the Wild Things Are was a classic children book for several generations, and was finally made into a film, as we're all aware by now. It hasn't gotten universal praise, though author Maurice Sendak was quite taken with the Spike Jonze film.
Oct 26, '09
You can get instant quality full coverage medical insurance for entire family at the best price from http://bit.ly/39pFJx
Oct 26, '09
I agree that higher education costs for in-state tuition has climbed out of control. That is for undergrad as well as medical degress at OHSU. For comparrison, please check what the costs are at OSU for a Veterinary Doctor degree. I have a cousin entering the vet school in Iowa and she states it is far more difficult to secure a position in a Vet School than a Medical School.
Oct 26, '09
It's interesting, the conversation on Think Out Loud (that in itself is unusual and noteworthy) - sounds like Oregon is paid at substantially lower rates for Medicare. It might make sense in the Oregon Outback to pay like we are a lower-tier state, but in the Metro area, where costs are high for living, the amounts paid should be adjusted.
Oct 26, '09
rw - It might make sense in the Oregon Outback to pay like we are a lower-tier state, but in the Metro area, where costs are high for living, the amounts paid should be adjusted.
Kurt - rw, I thought that you were better than this. How could you? What an example of the Portland centric colloqualism that is often discussed here on BO. The cost of living is EXACTLY the same, or higher as a percentage of income, in southern Oregon. Bend has very high cost of living that extends outward to Redmond, Prineville, Sisters and other areas. Onario and Roseburg have similar issues with costs due to centralized land use planning and higher energy costs.
I would hasten to add that the cost of a hip or knee replacement in Ashland is probably no different than Portland. I can say with personal experieince that laser eye surgery is about 50% LESS in Portland than in southern Oregon. Rogue Valley Medical Center has a Top 100 Heart Center rated that way for the past 10 years, cost for all cardiac procedures are at the national norm.
Please, rethink your casual statement trying to further Balkanize Portland from the rest of the state.
10:47 a.m.
Oct 26, '09
Maybe we should also be asking why OHSU costs so much relative to other publicly-funded medical schools?
Probably because they receive so little public funding.
Oct 26, '09
In the last 15 years tuitions in every kind of school have changed to reflect the earning potential of the graduates. From the brewing degree at OSU to Ayurvedic Medicine at the local alternative college, divide your expected yearly income, after the degree, by the number of years it takes to earn the degree and you magically come up with the yearly lump sum cost.
When I went to school that formula worked well for major degrees too. Except it was "what you expect to earn after your degree per month".
Education sucks in the US for the same reason health care does. In both cases we have taken what exists for the public benefit, and made bottom line profit for the plutocrats the prime consideration.
It also does not build the republic to have kids learn that you have to play along with corporate hegemony to get ahead in life. Once begun, that seldom ends.
Oct 26, '09
This probably needs to change. Also, if we, as a country, start requiring 50 million more people to be insured, how are our current number of physicians going to support them? Have you tried to shop doctors lately? How many aren't taking ANY new patients. We have a shortage of doctors, if we take the future into account. We need to get more people in med school. NOT hammer on them because they may make more money than us. (and not all of them do, BTW).
Oct 26, '09
OHSU was in the news about a year ago when the O broke the story that at the time of large budget cutbacks, top administrators paid themselves a total of $1.8 million in bonuses. After the story broke they decided to take a pay cut for the following year.
At the time I was shocked but since then I have noticed that most college presidents now expect to be paid at least a half-million a year, up to I think currently about $7 million, plus the perks--president's house, car, travel, expense accounts, etc. (Some even have airplanes provided.) And some presidents now call themselves CEOs.
There was a time, even during my 35-year teaching career, when the president was an academic, and even occasionally taught a course! Now presidents are expected to spend full-time hustling money, especially from rich alums. The other administrators who run the school also expect big bucks now.
It's the same old story--CEO influences selection of board members who appoint compensation committees. Then they all declare each other geniuses who should be paid more than others in their sector. And so the mad pay spiral continues.
If we are lucky enough to get health care reform, we'll urgently need many more physicians and nurses. There will have to be a serious inquiry into the medical school cartel and how it can turn out the supply we will need. But good things for both students and patients could come out of this process.
1:47 p.m.
Oct 27, '09
Mr. Story,
Any football coach makes like 3 or 4 times that of a public university president, coaches get perks too, and if you compare to the private sector the size of the organization a public university president runs, you would see a great income disparity as well. University presidents are worth every penny in most cases and I think should make more than the football coach, whatever that number may be.
Tim Young, Former Oregon University System Director
Nov 4, '09
what? 20 private and public schools maintained higher tuition and fees. ONLY 20 ? thats just a lil bit to few in my mind. at the end all good school gets an tuition. but i dont know.is the government hinking about the poor? Or the school which are dilapidated?!
Jon
Nov 16, '09