Leading the fight to protect farmland in Washington County
Carla Axtman
In Friday's Oregonian, Eric Mortenson has a terrific profile of farmer Dave Vanasche, who is farming on foundation farmland that's been placed inside urban reserves for Washington County. You should click through if for no other reason than to view Randy Rasmussen's great photo work.
At ground zero in Cornelius, Dave Vanasche leads fight to preserve Washington County farmland:
But there's more to it than soil quality. The acreage north of Cornelius is a large, intact segment of farmland where little development intrudes. Lacing it is the infrastructure that makes farming go: tractor and combine dealerships, fertilizer and chemical stores, metal fabrication shops, and plants that clean and bag the grass seed and clover seed grown here.Vanasche points out the pickup window to a freshly plowed field. The churned earth is dark and loose. "Not a rock in it," Vanasche says.
The field has been designated an "urban reserve" where adjacent Cornelius will eventually expand. Vanasche and other farmers with the Washington County Farm Bureau ceded it last month as part of a strategic retreat when the Portland region mapped land to develop and areas to reserve for farming and forests.
Some land would be lost to growth, the farm bureau acknowledged, so that larger sections north of Cornelius could be saved.
Vanasche guides the pickup north again. At 61, he's a ruddy figure in ball cap and work boots. He and his wife, Ellen, have a son, Mark, 23, and daughter, Kari, 26. He grows grass seed, clover seed and wheat on 2,345 acres. He owns 632 acres and leases the rest from two dozen property owners. Even those who disagree with his land-use politics call him an excellent farmer.
His parents, Florence and Albert, raised milk cows, beef cattle and the alfalfa to feed them, but told their sons to get an education and do something else. It didn't quite hold. The younger son, Tom, became an emergency room doctor but grows hazelnuts on the side. Dave Vanasche became a civil engineer and licensed land surveyor. He worked for the city of Hillsboro and developed a love for planning, but in 1980 he bought out his father to farm full-time.
His mother's parents, the Wunderlichs, founded the farm on Susbauer Lane where Vanasche grew up and has his shop today. His father's parents farmed a mile away.
Many farms in Washington County have similar roots, deep and old, with place names and family names that ring of northern Europe. Helvetia, Schefflin and Verboort. Duyck, VanDyke and Spiesschaert. Vanderzanden and, of course, Vanasche, which is Belgian.
Vanasche steers the pickup over a stream on the north edge of Cornelius. It flows west to east, a trickle through brush.
"This is Council Creek," he says. "This is where the battle starts."
Discuss.
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Mar 14, '10
I don't understand why Mr. Vanasche, and other farmers who are all outraged, just don't put deed restriction restrictions on their property that forever forbids development on their land.
Seems to me that if they truly believed what they are saying, that is what they would do. Clearly they do not.
If not, my guess is that they are actually trying to negotiate their way into the UGB rather than the URA, or get some other advantage through the land use laws.
10:42 a.m.
Mar 14, '10
Jim:
The only way the land can be brought into the UGB is if it's designated as urban reserves or left undesignated.
Your speculation that this is an angle to actually get into the UGB makes no sense.
Mar 14, '10
The Durig's are three generation farmers in Washington county, where my grandmother went to s single room grades school with all the community, for 100% of her formal education, with many of the families mentioned.
I'm in-charge of the farm, and have worked two years and endlessly wasted my and their time and resources. The zoning "Experts" working for Washington County are lost in their own sea of regulations and bureaucracies, where they have re-read the same rules and then changed their minds back and forth in a single day!. It's a joke!!!
I beleive Ringo Star's quote works especially on Washington County.
Ringo Star- Everything Government touches (farm land in Cornelius) Turns it crap!
Mar 14, '10
Karla:
Local jurisdictions have been bringing farmland into the UGB for 30 years without going through the URA process. The URA process is new. Farmers like those in Washington County have learned that if they fight loud enough that the land use decsion makers will cut them in, or give them something they want.
Why would a farmer not want to take $4000 farmland and make it $20,000 UGB land. You really believe that they have a TRUE LOVE for farming?
Test your farm friends out there. Ask them if they will put on a irrevocable deed restriction to deny development if they love farming (or, maybe years later, urban open space) so much.
You will find that they won't. All of these farmers that are praised for protecting farmland are just working a financial angle. It may not be easy to see, but they are all working these land use laws.
Ask them, I dare you, they will not sign the deed restriction.
2:14 p.m.
Mar 14, '10
Gym,
You're missing the premise of the farmer's opposition. Deed restrictions would merely be another way to hog-tie the options/rights of future generations owning the land. They don't want to use restrictions to fight restrictions because that would be restrictive and that's what they are fighting against in the first place.
BTW, where'd you get such a goofy name?
Mar 14, '10
Hillcrest Orchard in Medford is a foundation farm and has been in the city UGB for many, many years. It has not stopped the growth of the city or the profitable operation of the Orchard. as a matter of record, Hillcrest family downers and descendants have very successfully changed the focus of the orcahrd from pears to wine quality grapes and a fine vinyard over the past 10-12 years.
3:43 p.m.
Mar 14, '10
Local jurisdictions have been bringing farmland into the UGB for 30 years without going through the URA process. The URA process is new. Farmers like those in Washington County have learned that if they fight loud enough that the land use decsion makers will cut them in, or give them something they want.
I'm familiar with the process. Based on my understanding and conversations with multiple local and state officials, the process in Washington County yielded a lot more land into urban reserves than the old UGB process likely would have.
Why would a farmer not want to take $4000 farmland and make it $20,000 UGB land. You really believe that they have a TRUE LOVE for farming?
Yes, I believe they have a true love for farming. What evidence do you have that they don't? Even with the deed you're talking about, if adjacent land is developed it's virtually impossible for many of these people to continue farming. The infrastructure requirements for development make it that way. Just ask the people out on Roy Rogers Road in Sherwood.
Mar 14, '10
Here's a site you can go to and look up the crop subsidies paid out to farmers in some recent years. Might want to see how much crop welfare is going to the farmers first. Then ask if that program was deleted or cut back how many of them would be in love with farming.
http://farm.ewg.org/sites/farmbill2007/index.php
8:32 p.m.
Mar 14, '10
Or we could just push everyone to quit farming and import all of our food from other countries--unregulated and without our own oversight.
Mar 14, '10
Carla
your quote "without our own oversight." What farmer wants some Washington County Regulator County guy who works in a office, to provide oversight. WOW that would help.
Please send him to help the post office I think they need and want more help.
What did you mean by "OUR OWN"
The freer the framer the more food grown, the freer the civil right the lower racism, the freer society the higher acceptance of gay right. The freer the education system the better the students preform.
Here was the shocker to me, the freer the land owners the higher environment we keep the land.
Stop regulating what YOU want, while claiming the need for freedom for "OUR OWN" causes.
A quote another great freedom fighter-
There is no such thing as part freedom. Nelson Mandela
Mar 15, '10
When are humans going to realize that unless we find a way to sustain ourselves on asphalt and bark dust, we had better quit developing our farm land? Another threat to the farmers of northwest Oregon comes in the form of two 36" natural gas pipelines being proposed by Palomar(NW Natural and Transcanada) and Oregon LNG. Since the Federal Energy Regulator Commission has taken the stance of "letting the market decide", rather than actually REGULATING the issue, some farmers are facing the prospect of having both lines destroy their farm. It's time to tell NW Natural and Oregon LNG to leave our precious farm land alone.
Mar 15, '10
Any farmer who wants to keep his land farm land can do so regardles of any UGB or reserve designations.
You're making up problems in order to justify your blind obstructionist agenda.
Here's part of what you deliberately avoid and conceal.
"Besides the downturn in the real estate market, the banking crisis also has limited farming operations’ access to financing. For example, pear packers in southern Oregon currently cannot finance operational expenses through traditional means. To address this problem, they want lands they own near the Urban Growth Boundary to be rezoned as residential. Then the land either can be sold at a higher price, or the added development rights will allow the bank to value the land higher as collateral. Grass seed growers in the Willamette Valley also face this problem. Most of last year’s crop sits unsold in storage sheds, and grass seed farmers don’t have the cash to buy seed and other inputs to plant the coming year’s crop." http://www.oregoncatalyst.com/index.php/archives/3114-Land-Poor,-Cash-Poor.html#extended
Yet you earlier tried to pitch the farce that farmer's credit availability is harmed by reserve or UGB designations.
Make it up as you go.
Mar 15, '10
Gayle
Please keep your regulation off the farms. "rather than actually REGULATING the issue"
Buy a clue, if you go out to North Plains you would have no idea were the pipe is, and it never stop, delayed, interfered with crops. It buried to deep, you can't even find it today.
Why are you trying to hurt and interfere with others livelihood their freedoms, lets respect and honer their choices, and ask them to honor and respect yours!
Why can't we respect other persons freedoms, Lets respect: gay rights, property right, students and parents rights, women's rights.
The freer the society the higher the standard of living for the poor!
Another GREAT freedom fighter quote- "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." Abraham Lincoln
8:57 a.m.
Mar 15, '10
Any farmer who wants to keep his land farm land can do so regardles of any UGB or reserve designations.
But farmers can't necessarily or without huge problems farm their land when it is in the UGB or with an urban reserve designation.
And that's the problem.
Mar 15, '10
OH BS Carla.
You're too wrong for words. Do you need to be driven to the countless farms operating in and adjacent to the UGB before you pull out of it?
Stop misleading people because you are confused or worse.
Drive out Farmington Road until you see the last neighborhood on one side of the street and farms on the other. There's examples like that everywhere and it's been that way the whole time all of the nonsensicle labeling process has been churning out the labels. Except in recent decades higher density neighborhoods have been placed next to these farms since Metro et al have been mandating their "plans".
Such hypocricy there. The endless claim sprawl hinders adjacent farms while Metro et all stick nigher density neighborhoods right next to many. Adding even more stupidity is Metro then identifying for industrial use next to one of their neighborhoods as they did with Frog Pond in Wilsonville. Causing upheaval and relocating the industrial use label to where they previously had called it vital to preserving the buffer between Tualatin and Wilsonville.
The examples of chaos planning and labels are everywhere. Driven by the agenda of fanatics pretending to be saving all things good.
Go back 40 years to Charbonneau which was cast as such as outrage and see the livable community is is with farms next door. Pick any direction same story. And it's not the tall tales you tell.
As for Gayle and the pipe lines. Her tale is in the shifting mode used to obstruct the LNG terminals.
The made up obstacles never end.
Mar 15, '10
"The freer the framer the more food grown"
Then we need to demand that 100% of all farm subsides be eliminated immediately. That would free up a few billion for another military base in the Middle East.
"the freer the civil right the lower racism, the freer society the higher acceptance of gay right"
Yeah, that worked sooooo well in the 60s. Alabama just yearned to be free to accept people of all races in their public high schools and colleges.
You might want to take some of that bullshit and spread it in the fields before spring.
Mar 15, '10
RDurig, I'm not trying to interfere with anyone's rights here; rather I'm fighting to protect the rights of the private property owners who would lose valuable acreage that CANNOT be farmed with any deep rooted plants, e.g. grapes, filberts, timber crops. And the pipeline through North Plains is NOT a 36" pipe. The only freedom I want to prevent is the "freedom" of energy company speculators to run rough-shod over Oregon and Washington farmers and citizens in their stampede to make a buck! And they are being abetted by the FERC!
10:58 a.m.
Mar 15, '10
Do you need to be driven to the countless farms operating in and adjacent to the UGB before you pull out of it?
Richard: I LIVE there.
I've made the drive out Farmington Rd many times. I'm out at Farmington Gardens often. I've made the drive down Roy Rogers Rd between Beaverton and Sherwood many, many times, too. I make the drive from Brookwood Rd south to Cornell Rd at least once a week and north along Helvetia past West Union regularly.
This is my home.
Not only that, I've actually spoken at length with farmers and elected officials about the problems facing those trying to farm and those trying to make decisions about land use here.
Stop pretending you have any idea what you're talking about. You clearly do not.
Mar 15, '10
Posted by: Carla Axtman | Mar 14, 2010 8:32:05 PM
Or we could just push everyone to quit farming and import all of our food from other countries--unregulated and without our own oversight.
It's always interesting where the lines of contention get drawn, when the whole system needs overhauling. True enough, yet we regularly use the military to check on the growing conditions of crops we label drugs. How about making some real, progressive grassroots no-brainers a given from the start. Namely, if someone has the wherewithal and will to grow their own, then they should always have that choice. There are too many vacant lots and apartment bound home gardeners not to hook the two up. It also helps the post topic. There's nothing like folks' growing their own to mature their attitudes toward farm policy and land use planning.
Off-topic, but a timely point on enviro reg and leg (though farming has been a favorite excuse for the policy)...
Our daylight savings time policy should be based purely on optimizing energy usage. One can make a strong case that we know how to do that, and have when we had to, yet always return to wasteful energy policies when the pressure is off. From the US Naval Observatory:
History of Daylight Time in the U.S.
Although standard time in time zones was instituted in the U.S. and Canada by the railroads in 1883, it was not established in U.S. law until the Act of March 19, 1918, sometimes called the Standard Time Act. The act also established daylight saving time, a contentious idea then. Daylight saving time was repealed in 1919, but standard time in time zones remained in law. Daylight time became a local matter. It was re-established nationally early in World War II, and was continuously observed from 9 February 1942 to 30 September 1945. After the war its use varied among states and localities. The Uniform Time Act of 1966 provided standardization in the dates of beginning and end of daylight time in the U.S. but allowed for local exemptions from its observance. The act provided that daylight time begin on the last Sunday in April and end on the last Sunday in October, with the changeover to occur at 2 a.m. local time.
During the "energy crisis" years, Congress enacted earlier starting dates for daylight time. In 1974, daylight time began on 6 January and in 1975 it began on 23 February. After those two years the starting date reverted back to the last Sunday in April. In 1986, a law was passed that shifted the starting date of daylight time to the first Sunday in April, beginning in 1987. The ending date of daylight time was not subject to such changes, and remained the last Sunday in October. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 changed both the starting and ending dates. Beginning in 2007, daylight time starts on the second Sunday in March and ends on the first Sunday in November.
For a very readable account of the history of standard and daylight time in the U.S., see
Ian R. Bartky and Elizabeth Harrison: "Standard and Daylight-saving Time", Scientific American, May 1979 (Vol. 240, No. 5), pp. 46-53.
Mar 15, '10
Gayle
Your quote
"I'm fighting to protect the rights of the private property owners who would lose valuable acreage that CANNOT be farmed with any deep rooted plants"
Your doing this by what?????
Your saying you want to help the farmers rights by mandating regulation?
You must know regulation is act of taking away rights. So your say your taking away rights to protect rights.
Please select one side of the fence.
I want to quote what I believe the greatest freedom fighter in my lifetime.
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Don't oppress the farmer.
Mar 15, '10
Scott in Damascus
Yes stop scoot we need to stop the farm subsidies, and to be honest, to be free and equal please don't just stop at the farm.
Mar 15, '10
Carla, Well then are you just a liar?
Because you are claiming "farmers can't necessarily or without huge problems farm their land when it is in the UGB or with an urban reserve designation" when you have yourself witnessed it being done so for decades without those "problems".
Yours is simple fabrication in advocating for the most obstructionist land use possible.
Your claim to have "spoken at length with farmers and elected officials about the problems facing those trying to farm and those trying to make decisions about land use here" is NO DOUBT embellishment and distortion.
And it demonstrates nothing. You may have talked to a farmer or two like the misguided former government employee one in this story above but his is a lesson in BS too. If he wants to keep farming I suggest he simply buy the land he leases. He currently only owns 632 acres of the 2,345 acres he famers. While getting a PERS retirement check as well?
So here he is wanting regulations to prohibit anything but his low cost lease farming to be done on that land which other people own?
So those are his land-use politics.
Both of you are dishonest.
11:51 a.m.
Mar 15, '10
Because you are claiming "farmers can't necessarily or without huge problems farm their land when it is in the UGB or with an urban reserve designation" when you have yourself witnessed it being done so for decades without those "problems".
No, actually I have not witnessed that. That's the point, Richard.
In fact, I've witnessed just the opposite. Especially along Roy Rogers Rd on the way to Sherwood.
It's obvious that these issues don't fit into your on-paper conception of what things should be--because to you, people must be lying and embellishing if it's not fitting for you.
Again, it's pretty clear that not only do you not understand this stuff, it doesn't fit in with your ideology so you're going to plug your ears and sing "liar liar" in order to make it feel better. Your call. In the meantime--the real world goes on.
Mar 15, '10
What part of this don't you understand, RDurig? If FERC would regulate the pipeline proposals, farmers wouldn't be facing the prospect of not one, BUT TWO, gigantic pipelines disrupting their crops. And we are demanding freedom, freedom to keep farming, not providing a fast-track for gas to move to California. Wrap your mind around that!
Mar 15, '10
Hey Richard please clean up the language. Hey Carl please don't oppress the farmer
Mar 15, '10
"In fact, I've witnessed just the opposite. Especially along Roy Rogers Rd on the way to Sherwood."
I've used Roy Rogers road since it opened.
The same things are going on there today.
You haven't witnessed squat Carla.
Whatever it is you've imagined it.
Or taking routine meangingless inconveniences and fabricating/advocating them into problems which serve your misguided extremist's agenda and the luncacy of the greater central planning regime you support.
12:15 p.m.
Mar 15, '10
Richard: Then perhaps you can explain the farmland that's been paved over and is now businesses along Roy Rogers Rd? Al's Garden Center alone takes up a huge amount of acreage with frontage running against the road. That nursery hasn't been open longer than 5 years.
12:27 p.m.
Mar 15, '10
And let's not forget the fabulous new (and large) housing developments pushing out on the Sherwood end of Roy Rogers Road--most of those aren't more than a few years old either. If that.
Mar 15, '10
Gayle your quote "If FERC would regulate"
Please respect others freedoms, I want to respect choices, even if I believe their wrong.
Please don't take both sides.
Carla you too
PLEASE - You need to read this quote- Freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit political convenience. I don't believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others. Coretta Scott King
12:52 p.m.
Mar 15, '10
If we manage growth very carefully and to the specs of the most diehard Green Gurus, the result will be that they won't put a Jack-in-the-box next to your house until your grandchildren own it.
But it's still coming............
Mar 15, '10
Okay, RDurig, you win. Freedom for all! No protections for anyone! Anarchy rules the day! Unfortunately the farmers in question don't have a choice, they have to fight to protect their farms, so they can continue to provide food and products to the rest of us. Whose freedom are you bolstering here?
Mar 15, '10
I enjoyed the chat- Gayle
One of my many duties is to manage and 1/2 owner of a 3gen. family farm next to the NWNG pipeline.
My Family wanted the NWNG on our property because we wanted the royalties, and it no way would effect our crops, but it went across the street.
Yes we need basic rules and laws. But more important we need to respect others freedoms and choices. Currently, we're failing here.
I support many things that I will NEVER be a part of, and part of me truly says it wrong, but I believe more importantly, that OTHERS have the freedom to do what they believe in.
Freedom to choose, true freedoms, is what made America great.
Another great freedom fighter- Whenever men take the law into their own hands, the loser is the law. And when the law loses, freedom languishes. Robert Kennedy
Mar 15, '10
Carla,
So now the Nusery business isn't farming?
And these farmers selling along Roy Rogers is bad too. Need to stop that sort of thing too?
As for the Sherwood subdivision growth, that mandated dense form is Metro all the way and it has nothing to do with your earleier point. You're wandering around in circles.
Can you explain your irrational drama that all land that could be used for your farming must stay that way?
Better yet, take a drive from Newberg to Corvallis or Newberg to Hillsboro and see the vast and endless farmland that's off the usual highways to the coast.
You don't seem to know what a "huge amount of acreage" even looks like. It aint a garden center.
Explain why Al's should be allowed to build a garden center at their nursery farm. Not to mention the close proximity to consumers in the subdivisions you hate.
By the way, all of the worst subdivisions in the last decade or two are those overcrowded ones fullfiling the higher density mandates by Metro and the other planning regimes. Look at the sea of roofs, asphalt and concrete near the other end of Roy Rogers Road at Scholls Ferry road.
Isn't that pretty. It's quite a site created by your lofty planners. Funny how the older neighborhoods and recent one which are similar are more desireable. But when you're dealing with the sprawl boogieman and the conceptual central planning world reality don't is obscured. IMO you and many like you are misguided busy bodies who enamor over some vision in your head that never seems to arive out of all the enormous investment in planning.
Nope, instead we get overcrowded communities, the heavily susbidized SoWa, the Round, Villebois and the same rat race chaos we could get without the Metro/planning loons.
But you seem to think they do a bang up job with all that crap they produce and impose.
2:40 p.m.
Mar 15, '10
So now the Nusery business isn't farming?
It's a retail nursery with a gigantic parking lot, buildings and cash registers. That's farming, to you?
Mar 15, '10
It's not a BIG BOX strip mall like the urban renewal/MAX generated Cascade Station.
And Al's has sizable nursury right there covering many more acres than their "retail" sales facility.
But you wander.
3:34 p.m.
Mar 15, '10
It's not a BIG BOX strip mall like the urban renewal/MAX generated Cascade Station.
And Al's has sizable nursury right there covering many more acres than their "retail" sales facility.
But you wander.
I'm not talking about the growing part of their operation. I'm talking about the enormous parking lot, buildings and signage that have buried farmland. That's not farming. And yes, that's a BIG BOX retail nursery set up. In fact, it's huge.
And now that you've helped me undermine your point about how Roy Rogers Rd hasn't changed since it opened..thanks for that.
There are large nursery stock growing operations all along Scotch Church Rd and Zion Church Rd and Cornelius-Shefflin Rd on the back way to Forest Grove and Cornelius. That's farming.
Speaking of wandering....
And I agree with you about that sea of asphalt on the Scholls Ferry end of Roy Rogers. That's Washington County handing land over to developers hand over fist--thousands of single family houses, mostly McMansion style with very little building up. Almost all building out. And with little in the way of infrastructure to support the traffic mess they've brought there.
I appreciate you once again helping to make my point.
Mar 15, '10
Lame really lame.
That sea of roofs, asphalt and concrete is a direct result of Metro density requirements and our approach to planning.
The lack of traffic infrastructure is also a direct result of the lousy planning and agenda driven spending practices which build WES instead of road capacity for TRAFFIC.
Everything you represent is failure in the pursuit of the fantasy. Like driving to Medford to get to Seattle.
Just like all the sings of failed planning it's like passing signs reading Salem, Eugene and Roseberg while insiting you're headed toward Seattle.
Mar 15, '10
ORS 30.930 - The Oregon Right To Farm Act passed in 1993, updated in 1995 and 2001. Encroachment of subdivisions and developments may not impair a farmer's rights to work their land as farms.
Mar 15, '10
"My Family wanted the NWNG on our property because we wanted the royalties"
Oh, I see now.
Freedom to f$%k over the neighbors in search of profit.
God I hope you do get that Jack-in-the-Box 24 hour drive-up window right next to your kitchen.
Mar 15, '10
Thanks Scott-
your quote "God I hope you do get that Jack-in-the-Box 24 hour drive-up window right next to your kitchen." I would like to get jack in the box drive up also. Thanks
Your quote- "Freedom to f$%k over the neighbors in search of profit." No I helped my neighbors, and allowed NWNG to park on our property, I was glad for their success. They are very nice to me.
I would be willing to debate issues, but with that said you provided no issues, you just attacking.
PS Scott , I really beleive in freedom, I want a society freer for my children. With less HATE and ANGER to the success of fellow man.
Another freedom quote- Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you earn it and win it in every generation. Coretta Scott King
10:21 p.m.
Mar 15, '10
That sea of roofs, asphalt and concrete is a direct result of Metro density requirements and our approach to planning.
The lack of traffic infrastructure is also a direct result of the lousy planning and agenda driven spending practices which build WES instead of road capacity for TRAFFIC.
LOL Richard..seriously..just stop.
If the roofs, asphalt and concrete were a direct result of actual density planning, it would be built up--not out. Developers would be paying to actually complete the infrastructure--rather than sidewalks that simply end in ditches and inadequate road systems that cannot support the traffic. There would also be grocery stores and other shopping within walking distance (see also Orenco).
You've spent this entire thread talking out your ass.
Mar 16, '10
You talk alot about "freedom" and wrapping yourself in the flag and King quotes, but at the end of the day it has nothing to do with farming. You want a gas pipeline, a Jack-in-the-Box, and god knows what else on your property.
Your not a farmer - you want to be a developer. Therefore the issue at hand is to read the TITLE of the post, sell your land, and invest that money in property zoned for commercial use.
But stop hiding behind the aw-shucks freedom loving farmer act - it's really annoying.
Mar 16, '10
Scott in Damascus
Thanks for your feedback
Scott this is to me exacley what I'm talking about. Sone who possibly lives in Damascus, and might not even know where North Plains is, who lives 40-60 miles away, maybe visit it twice a year, nows nothing about my farm, my histrory, has never seen or asked what I grow, never seen the land, the features. Possibly never farmed.
With no history what so ever, But YOUR'RE trying try to DICTATE policy, knowing you basically 100% clueses about the every fact.
Thanks for supporting my argument, we get involved, when we shouldn't, and only make it much worse.
To me your example, is what is so wrong with our system.
PS I wrapping myself in freedoms, that something you can't accept, it works far better, than anger, jealously and attacks, I do recommend you try it.
Thanks Scott.
another freedom fighter- The best road to progress is freedom's road. John F. Kennedy
6:58 p.m.
Mar 16, '10
Scott this is to me exacley what I'm talking about. Sone who possibly lives in Damascus, and might not even know where North Plains is, who lives 40-60 miles away, maybe visit it twice a year, nows nothing about my farm, my histrory, has never seen or asked what I grow, never seen the land, the features. Possibly never farmed.
I live in Washington County and agree 100% with Scott. I suspect I could easily find lots of farmers who agree with him too.
Just because someone doesn't live in the county is meaningless. I've watched this kind of BS go on all over Oregon...County Commissions running roughshod over local citizens in favor of developers.
Btw RDuring..where is that farm where you work?
Mar 16, '10
Here's a news flash for RDurig: there will be no royalties paid for the OR LNG or the Palomar pipelines. Since this is not an intra-state project, federal rules apply. There will be a one time easement paid, and you'd better bet it will be a low-ball figure. Then the farmer gets to keep paying property taxes on land he cannot use. Fair, eh?
Mar 16, '10
You to Carla,
First I'm not a developer. (Jack in the box)or income would be nice, but not a reality, but since this years taxes on the farm will be about double the income. I wasn't for NWNG I said my family which meant my brother was.
It don't make any difference you want to attack anyone how oppose your idea of Utopian.
Here is the big issue. Please respect others freedoms, I want to respect your choices in-life, even if I believe their wrong. And here you are.
PLEASE READ IT REALLY DOES APPLY TO YOU CARLA
Freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit (CARLA) political convenience. I don't believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others. Coretta Scott King
CARLA you want your policaical agenda, and you want to parcel it out where YOU want! And deny it to other like farmers.
Attacking one sector then the next, the farms taking away their freedoms, and now health Insurance, who next with your target.
The real issue is called Socialism. And you can't accept threw history, When Socialism turns bad, it has hurt and killed more people, than it can ever help.
7:46 p.m.
Mar 16, '10
RDurig:
Reposting the same platitudes isn't especially convincing.
Again, where is that farm where you say you work?
Mar 16, '10
First I said I 1/2 own and run, but no thank you.
Mar 19, '10
Posted by: Carla Axtman | Mar 16, 2010 7:46:38 PM
RDurig:
Reposting the same platitudes isn't especially convincing.
Again, where is that farm where you say you work?
Talk about arrogant and cowardly. I wonder why real "fill in the blanks" never post here? You owe the hearty poster an apology. Those that said a few threads back that he wasn't sincere can queue up too. I would be economical with personal details. Many of the contributors like those details as they specialize in the ad hominem argument. They're famous for it.
I sincerely apologize for your treatment, RDurig. Please accept that you're hearing career, entrenched, tepid Dems and not real progressives. We certainly don't agree 100%, but we're grateful for your taking the time.
2:10 p.m.
Mar 19, '10
Talk about arrogant and cowardly. I wonder why real "fill in the blanks" never post here? You owe the hearty poster an apology.
Nope. He owes one to the rest of us, frankly.
Posting quotes from Coretta Scott King in an effort validate the paving over of foundation farmland is little more than demagoguery--and it's highly unfortunate that you'd support such rhetoric.
And speaking of ad hominems, you appear to be the resident expert. Not only to you falsely presume my long-term political affiliations, your calls for ideological purity and zealous devotion to a personal narrow mindset are offensive, at best.
There are many who comment here who use their real name. Not only do their comments have more credibility, they're not nearly as eager to run to abusiveness and nastiness. Would that you'd run in that direction.
Mar 19, '10
There are many who comment here who use their real name. Not only do their comments have more credibility, they're not nearly as eager to run to abusiveness and nastiness. Would that you'd run in that direction.
Sure. I've retained an attorney full-time for dealing with crap like stalkers and such. I'm going to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon too. 90% inspired by BO and the constant, illogical whining about the posting IDs. More credibility? Facts are facts. I think you'll find that I am a lot nastier, signed. When using a pseudonym I think the anonymity carries greater responsibility. Guess the handfull of BO contributors that I'm FB friends with haven't mentioned it. It says right on my FB page, "Zarathustra on Blueoregon, et alii".
your calls for ideological purity and zealous devotion to a personal narrow mindset are offensive, at best.
At least it has a value. What's the value of bratty snottiness?
And speaking of ad hominems, you appear to be the resident expert.
I've made one in 5 years. I called Richard "Dickhead".
I make no assumptions about your ideology. My GUESS is that I agree about 95%. If I were writing professionally, would you not make the observation you did above? Same deal. It adds not one iota and detracts from what could be some excellent columns.
I still can't believe the arrogance. Is verbal ability a prerequisite to posting? I think RD is speaking to the best of his ability. I could never be so arrogant to assume that the position you take is correct. I read it as inspired, if more than somewhat belabored. FWIW my verbal IQ is 156 and, relatively speaking, there's less of a gap between the average poster and RD than between myself and the average poster. If we're going to be really obtuse about it, how about we hold IQ constant and vary age? If I let myself look at it as you are, I would be arguing with kids.
6:13 p.m.
Mar 19, '10
Sure. I've retained an attorney full-time for dealing with crap like stalkers and such. I'm going to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon too. 90% inspired by BO and the constant, illogical whining about the posting IDs.
Whatever gets you through the day. I've been writing here under my full name for almost two years. Besides Kari, I may be the most high-profile writer here. The "lawyers" and "guns" thing seems like a lot of puffery to me. You'd be more likely to stalk me than the other way around, frankly. That would mean I'd actually have to care enough to put energy into it.
What's the value of bratty snottiness?
You tell me. You engage in it on a regular basis here so I presume you find it a useful rhetorical device.
I make no assumptions about your ideology. My GUESS is that I agree about 95%. If I were writing professionally, would you not make the observation you did above? Same deal. It adds not one iota and detracts from what could be some excellent columns.
You did make assumptions about my long-term political affiliation. Not only are you wrong--you're arrogant and offensive about it. I also don't write professionally (as in, I don't get paid). Another wrong assumption on your part.
I still can't believe the arrogance. Is verbal ability a prerequisite to posting? I think RD is speaking to the best of his ability. I could never be so arrogant to assume that the position you take is correct. I read it as inspired, if more than somewhat belabored. FWIW my verbal IQ is 156 and, relatively speaking, there's less of a gap between the average poster and RD than between myself and the average poster. If we're going to be really obtuse about it, how about we hold IQ constant and vary age? If I let myself look at it as you are, I would be arguing with kids.
The entire paragraph above has nothing whatsoever to do with any point you or I have previously made on this thread. You're making excuses for silly platitudes that attempt to make it okay to pave over foundation farmland. This isn't about "speaking" or "IQ". That's completely irrelevant to this conversation. It's about invoking straw men quotations to build up lousy policy.
Mar 19, '10
You'd be more likely to stalk me than the other way around, frankly.
I don't need a lawyer? I leave my real name, and straight away, first post, you slander me. Way to make your point. Have you ever had to call the PPB while people you've taken to court shove a knife blade under the door? Been ambushed in the bathroom? Parking garage? I've mentioned that a dozen times, but you just know what you know and that's that, don't you? Wouldn't happen to be Irish, would you? Really fits the "can tell an Irishman but can't tell him much" saw.
The BO internship isn't "professional"? This is a hobby? Still, you don't maintain you do it unprofessionally, do you?
I happen to agree with you on the facts. I think your characterization of RD is totally wrong on a personal level.
You did make assumptions about my long-term political affiliation.
When? How? Personally I don't see it's relevant. I judge the words and the facts, just like you do me. What's the difference between an assumption and a model? You can't get out of bed in the morning without making assumptions. Model building is the most sentient behavior on the planet. All those saws about assumptions are just ignorant.
But you know better. You know RD's motivations as you did those of friends that you have continually insulted, claiming that you know that they're part of MY motivation. Man. You know a lot.
This isn't about "speaking" or "IQ".
But you know soooo much. Reads the hearts of all!
9:06 p.m.
Mar 19, '10
I don't need a lawyer? I leave my real name, and straight away, first post, you slander me. Way to make your point. Have you ever had to call the PPB while people you've taken to court shove a knife blade under the door? Been ambushed in the bathroom? Parking garage? I've mentioned that a dozen times, but you just know what you know and that's that, don't you? Wouldn't happen to be Irish, would you? Really fits the "can tell an Irishman but can't tell him much" saw.
I've had my young children threatened by a rightwing lunatic who knew what school they went to and the neighborhood where we lived.
And please, do try to stay on topic and cut the drama. You've hardly been "slandered". I simply noted that I don't care enough about you to bother stalking you. As much as you comment here in a way fixated on me, that's clearly not reciprocated.
The BO internship isn't "professional"? This is a hobby? Still, you don't maintain you do it unprofessionally, do you?
I haven't had the fellowship at this blog in months. I've noted that numerous times here, as has Kari. You're wrong.
I happen to agree with you on the facts. I think your characterization of RD is totally wrong on a personal level.
I haven't said anything about RD on a personal level. I've disagreed with his/her policy positions and the rhetorical devices he/she uses to defend them. Period. I asked about the farm because frankly, he/she's completely incorrect about the LNG pipeline information based on every other landowner and policy person I've asked about it. So I'm curious how that particular farm is doing something that no other farm in Washington County (that I know of) is able to do. You're sniffing around for something on my part that is nonexistent.
When? How? Personally I don't see it's relevant. I judge the words and the facts, just like you do me. What's the difference between an assumption and a model? You can't get out of bed in the morning without making assumptions. Model building is the most sentient behavior on the planet. All those saws about assumptions are just ignorant.
If your assumptions about my political affiliations aren't relevant--then stop posting them in comments.
But you know better. You know RD's motivations as you did those of friends that you have continually insulted, claiming that you know that they're part of MY motivation. Man. You know a lot.
I know what RD says in comments. I have no idea what motivates the comments other than what he/she says motivates them. I'm taking RD at his/her word. As I am you. I don't pretend to know or care about what motivates you. You're assuming again that I do.
You're wrong about pretty much everything about me, so far.
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