Despite our national disaster, our country’s collective insanity

educate the ignorant

the evil being done in the world

There are lots of former Democrats out there who voted for Bush tonight. I'm one. Many of those Democrats, myself included, would come back to the party if it nominated a reasonable candidate and moderated its stances. (Hint: no more Massachusetts liberals.)

But sneering condescension like the quotes above just drives people farther away from the party. That language resonates in Berkeley, in Ashland, in Eugene, in Hollywood, in Manhattan, and almost nowhere else.

Never mind what this attitude does to the country; think in practical terms. If you continue to see the other side as evil, ignorant, and insane, you will continue to lose. It's as simple as that.

To the people of Oregon:

How dare you? How dare you tell me I’m less than you? How dare you have me face every person I know, meet or interact with each day and wonder if they are part of the 56% of you who believe you are better than I – that you deserve rights I do not have.

How dare you hide behind school children and make this issue about their “protection”. What about the children in school who question their own self-worth, their own sanity, because they don’t fit the mold?

Do you feel safer now? Help me understand how preventing others from marrying protects your marriage? Are your marriages so fragile they can be shaken by the events of people you don’t even know?

In a state where “live and let live” has always been the forefront of every argument, how can you justify this?

Oregon has joined the ranks of Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and South Carolina (to name a few) in progressing the cause of discrimination. Don’t ever dare joke about those states being ‘backwards’ and ‘ignorant’ again. Don’t ever dare think of yourself on a higher ground than those states that put politics in pulpits and bedrooms – that plaster religious documents in their courthouses and courtrooms. Don’t dare look with distain and distaste at states that allow a confederate flag to fly above their capitals. You are no better. I am appalled by your hypocrisy.

Be ashamed of what you have done. Be ashamed of the level to which you have sunk.

Dinah Smith Salem, OR

Dinah -

I am a conservative, but I'm coming around to a new worldview of equality, environmental protection , and more. While I may inadvertently offend you, I would like to tell you what I think happened. I think you were winning. You had America coming to the same awareness I have been coming to - that people are who they are, and that we need to value all people and let them live their lives in peace. But then people like Lisa Naito got too eager and pushed too hard, and we weren't quite ready. You see the isue very clearly because it is personal for you, but the rest of us aren't as sure about these things. They go against tradition and religion, and those are deeply engrained. In 20 years, I think we will see an entirely different view. I know it is hard for you to wait, but it was a bad political move to push the issue so early. It was a serious misunderstanding of where other people are. It has backfired badly and will be difficult to undo. I know many people are very anxious to put this discrimination behind us as a nation, but you have to also be sensitive to the beliefs and traditions of your fellow Americans. My children are being exposed to a different way of looking at other people in school and they are more open to equal rights for all than my generation is. I just wish you all had been more patient with your fellow Oregonians, tried to extend to them the understanding that you crave, and allowed the evolution of social thought to handle the challenge more gracefully. We could have avoided so much pain and confrontation.

To all Democrats I would say look at the gay marriage debate and learn from it. You have so much to offer our culture, but if you push too hard and too fast against tradition and religion you will see more of what you saw yesterday - a negative backlash that will set back the cause of peace, equality, and a healthy environment for years.

There was a time, even in my 54 years, when America was seen as a beacon of hope, and the land of opportunity.

There was a time, within my adult memory, when the Republican party was the party of limited government -- when people felt the government had no business sticking its nose into people's private business; the party was the party of fiscal conservatism, when a hue and cry would go up about over-spending and creating deficits.

Did the party change to reflect the majorities wishes or did the majority of people, in an increasingly complex and fearful world lose their way and are looking around for anyone who will dramatize the dangers and offer re-assurances that Big Brother will save them?

And there was a time, in my memory, when people who might be frightened by events in their world could look to the media and find information to help them make sense. Cronkite. Murrow. Today there is nowhere and everywhere to turn. O'Reilly. Sinclair Broadcasting.

I think there has been an incredible dumbing-down of the American people and an absence of places they can turn to help them understand and then, hopefully, cast votes in a calm, rational self-interest.

OTOH -- it is blogs like this that begin to seep through the monoliths of public media and offer hope.

Becky,

thank you for your words of encouragement - while i appreciate that you may have voted against the way the multnomah county commission handled the situation, this vote wasn't to condemn that action. this vote was to change the state constitution and endoctrinate discrimination.

for years, i've listened as oregonians have ridiculed Southerners (of which i am one) for their stereotypical thoughts, beliefs, actions and stupidity... today i am simply stunned by the hypocrisy.

".. if not now, when?"

I think there has been an incredible dumbing-down of the American people and an absence of places they can turn to

amen.

Erika

I agree that were it not for the Massachusetts’ Supreme Court ruling, followed by local governments around the country trying to interpret gay marriage into existence administratively, Kerry would have won decisively yesterday. The gay marriage debate, more than anything else, turned out the religious right in droves.

That doesn’t mean Democrats and gays should retreat or become more conservative. It just means we should be more careful about how hard and fast we push certain issues, in order to avoid backlashes. We need to be smarter. Did this issue really need to be elevated in a presidential election year? Couldn’t it have waited a year, after the election was over?

Activists always think their issues are winners and will help the party, and want revolutionary change to happen right away. We don’t need to change our positions, just be more patient and smarter about the timing of when and how we bring controversial issues up. I’m pretty sure the Republicans will now over-reach themselves in the coming years, creating a pro-Democratic backlash.

I think Evan is right that we all need to take a break and have more fun in our personal lives, and de-link our personal emotions and identity from politics for a while. We will live to fight another day.

"I think Evan is right that we all need to take a break and have more fun in our personal lives, and de-link our personal emotions and identity from politics for a while. We will live to fight another day"

Adam - After your post saying that we should be more careful and more timelier in how we push certain issues, and then say the above and de-linking our personal emotions.......I thought about that for awhile and considered it. But I have to say, No.

This time the election WAS personal: this has been about things that can't be disconnected for me, things that to my straight friends are an automatic right: the ability to see each other in a hospital, to be buried next to each other, to inherit pensions.....these are issues of crisis. Of the things we fear and don't ever want to have to face, but if you are gay/lesbian or not married, you don't automatically have these rights. I can't separate my personal emotions from that: could you? Woud you want to be patient about such personal and heartfelt things like this? Do these things seem fair and just to you? I have never felt so closely linked of my emotions and identity to politics as I do now. And I don't anticipate that to ever change now. It's given me conviction, and a burning desire to do the right thing. I'm forever changed. My emotions and identity are personal, political, and now, public. I'm done with just waiting.

John -

You sure jump to a lot of conclusions. First, you assume that I'm a Christian. While I believe in God, I'm not a Christian, though I was once a true believer before I found out about the origins of the Bible, blah, blah, so don't go unloading on me. Second, you assume that I'm expressing my own reluctance to allow gays to do whatever they want to do, and again, that's wrong. My sole purpose in posting my message was to try to help people who are pushing for these ideas to actually succeed. Because clearly they do not understand the right-wing Christian, and I do understand that person, having been there. And to these people, what the left does often comes off as being very in-your-face. You can talk about Lon Mabon and people like that all day long, but they don't really speak for as many people as you think they do. There is a real lack of understanding and respect out there among liberals for the conservative culture that has been dominant since the founding of this country. You can't just get in these good people's faces and expect them to change their minds. My mom used to tell me you attract a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. I hope you will get over your indignation, however justified, and look at how to actually succeed in creating a better society. You won't do it by approaching these issues the way Lisa Naito did. You will win it by educating each new generation in school, by inserting these ideas in movies, music and other forms of entertainment media, and by talking to people with patience. I'm sorry, to you the gay issue is the same as the black civil rights issue, but that is just not the way most of America sees it. You want to swing this country to the right, then bang it hard from the left. But if you want to make a difference, the operative word is "woo."

John, LeAnn,

Becky is right. Getting angry and in people's faces doesn't work. Being assertive and listening to people does work.

I don't blame gays and lesbians for fighting for their rights as vigorously as possible. I totally support this cause and always will. I do place the blame on some elected officials around the country, and here in Multnomah county, for moving a little too quickly, without any hearings or public input, and thereby creating the backlash we saw expressed in yesterday's vote around the country.

One day, within our lifetimes, gays and lesbians will enjoy all the freedoms and rights the rest of us enjoy. That day can't come too soon. But there's a ineffective way to go about it, and a smart and effective way to go about it.

it feels like a lot of people who voted for 36 would rather hide behind the "protest of mult co commissioners" mantra other than just admit they voted for discrimination - the fact is, if they wanted to send a message to the commissioners, they should have been in mult co working their tails off for Lisa Naito's opponent (Lisa was re-elected, btw). Not endoctrinating discrimination and now trying to stand up and say "hey, i like gay people... " if it looks like BS and smells like BS....

I hesitate to use MLK's words because I have never felt worthy of his mastery, but he said once something like "people keep telling me.. martin, just be patient.. things are changing.. just give it a little more time... the white folks will come around.. well, i'm tired... i'm tired of waiting... i'm tired of being patient... "

John:

or if i start to hum "we shall overcome..." :-)

The fight for civil (human) rights must NEVER back down in the face of religious intolerance. This is a culture war, and there is no retreat, and no surrender. The bigots may have won the battle with Measure 36, but the struggle continues.

I honestly think that many wish we could go back to "better times" when women and people of color were property and there was no vocal opposition to that hatred. Remember, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everwhere."

There are certain compromises that can (should) never be made. Equal rights for everyone is one if them. Period.

The problem with your call to battle, Colin, is that you are approaching this cultural/religious war the way the British used to fight - using a confrontational head-on attack, in which you are an easy target for your "enemy". You'd find yourself ultimately far more successful if you approached it guerilla-style, where your "enemy" didn't see you coming (and I don't mean arranging things in back rooms like Lisa Naito did). Or, for lack of a better analogy, think of it more as the proverbial frog-boiling story. Don't try to throw the cultural/religious opposition frog into what they perceive as your boiling water - turn the heat up slowly and they'll slowly succomb. OK, I know both of these are rotten ways of explaining the principle involved, but I think you know what I'm getting at, and over the past few years we've seen the frog boiling principle at work with what I think has been very positive success.

The problem here that seems to be getting overlooked is based on a complete lack of understanding of the power that a mandate-from-God has on an individual's thinking. It's the same kind of mentality that leads to suicide bombings in the name of Allah. I'm telling you because I know it is true that fundamentalist Christian believers would rather die than go contrary to their interpretation of God's will. So you really need to ask yourself how far you are willing to go if you want this to become a religious war. Because if that is the case, only death will end it, and then where will the free society be? Believe me when I tell you that as hideous as you think their views are, they also think yours are, and this country has to be big enough for both religious tolerance and equal rights.

Instead of trying to confront fundamentalist Christians, you'll be much better off in the long run if you focus your efforts on the cultural war, which may have its roots in Christianity but lacks the mandate-from-God aspect, meaning it's winnable with the right approach - the guerilla or frog approach. And I would suggest as I said earlier that this war be waged in the entertainment media, which has been very successful over the past ten years at breaking down barriers, adn in the schools, which are quite laudably working to turn out a new generation of more thoughtful, tolerant people. Beyond that, serious efforts should be made to secure scientifically sound research from credible researchers with solid peer review that shows that homosexuality is not a choice, but rather a feature of birth. Many people who currently feel it is a perversion will be affected by science demonstrating that it is natural.

Or, you can lose by getting in people's faces and forcing them to make a decision now, when they're not fully informed, in which case they'll revert to the beliefs they were raised with, and which are a deeply rooted part of our culture - this is the phenomenon we just observed with Measure 36.

Not too long ago I was in San Francisco and stopped by a gay rights booth to talk to the people there. I was surprised when they told me they face more discrimination in San Francisco than they do in other parts of the country where people are supposedly more conservative. My guess is that this is because those citizens of San Francisco who are more conservative have felt that the issue was so pushed in their faces that they have become extremely sensitive to it, that it's like a festering wound in their soul, and whenever that wound is touched they lash out. We don't want to create that situation throughout the country, but take it from someone who does not live in a liberal echo-chamber, if you push too hard and too fast that is exactly what will happen. This religion-based viewpoint is not going away, and they are incapable of dealing with it. I hope gays and their advocates will be the grown-ups so this situation doesn't end up being the never-ending Middle-East peace crisis of U.S. culture.

<h2>Social change for the better has never been quiet, it never happens when everyone's ready for it, and it has always been a break with "tradition." Those who desire that change, deserve it, require it, are sometimes loud, sometimes too beaten down to fight, and sometimes quietly praying for the day. Personally, I am thankful for all those who demand a better world. Whether they yell, speak politely and gently, or remember to say "mother may I?" It's only intolerance that is intolerable.</h2>