Empty words from an empty campaign
T.A. Barnhart
plagiarism: the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes
At last, at last, at last. Finally, something to nail Obama on. Couldn't nail him on change, given that's job one for the next president. Couldn't nail him on hope, since that's a crucial element of the human psyche if we all don't want to kill ourselves. Couldn't nail him on being Rezko's bagman, since he didn't do any work for him. Really couldn't nail him on a damn thing other than being just too eloquent and persuasive a speak to risk making President.
Except he's not! He's a cheat, a liar, a fraud! He stole his friend's words, took his very words and uttered them without quotemarks, footnotes or a pause in the rhetoric to say "...as my good friend Gov Deval Patrick said". Nope, he just took the words and said them and pretended they were his own. That's plagiarism, my friends. That's the proof we've been looking for that he's dirty and corrupt and unworthy of the highest office in the land.
Except, um, well, how would Jon Stewart put this?
It's not f***ing true!
The Clinton campaign is desperate for anything at all. Had Sasha Obama been found to have a skinned knee after playtime, they'd probably be on about what a rotten father he is. (Can we be sure, speculates Mark Penn, that a cocaine flashback didn't cause him to trip her and steal her cookie?) But to this point nothing they've tossed at Obama has stuck. Accusing him of plotting for the presidency since kindergarten kind of backfired on them, as did having Pres Bill mock him on national tv. So you can understand why Clinton campaign advisor Howard Wolfson was so gleeful that they had something — at last! — on tape.
Obama plagiarizing Patrick. Gotcha!
Got dick. Turns out Deval Patrick, for one, doesn't think his friend stole a thing. ABC.com's Jake Tapper, who normally delights in mocking Obama, writes:
Since last year, observers have been noting that rhetorical similarities between the two candidates with vaguely similar biographies and campaign pitches — who also share political guru David Axelrod."It's a handoff," Axelrod explains in an email. "They're friends and allies. They share a view of politics and often riff off of each other." (emphasis added)
By the way, did anyone also mention that Obama does not write many of his own speeches? He employs ... a speechwriter! He actually pays someone — a white man, too, of all things — to write words that he later speaks — without calling the speechwriter to the stage for acknowledgement! Has he no shame?
The shamelessness, of course, resides in the Clinton camp. Bob Cesca pretty much illustrated the nothingness of this non-controversy by citing Clinton's "plagiarisms:"
Here's a major problem for Senator Clinton's campaign if her staff and surrogates really want to engage in this so-called "plagiarism" debate. At the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, Senator Clinton employed what's called "anaphora" — a common technique of repeating a word or phrase for emphasis in a speech:
I see an America where we stand up to the oil companies...
I see an America where we say that 47 million people uninsured...
I see an America where we have schools worthy...
I see an America where college is affordable again...And so forth. It was a seriously awesome section of her Jefferson-Jackson speech. It's a shame that (again, as long as the gloves are off and there has to be this ridiculous "plagiarism" debate) she lifted the "I see an America" anaphora from other politicians, including then-Governor Jimmy Carter. June, 1976:
I see an America poised not only at the brink of a new century, but at the dawn of a new era of honest, compassionate, responsive government.
I see an America with a tax system that does not steal from the poor and give to the rich.
I see an America with a job for every man and woman who can work, and a decent standard of living for those who cannot.
I see an America in which my child and your child and every child receives an education second to none in the world.
I see an America in which Martin Luther King's dream is our national dream.
I see an America on the move again, united, its wounds healed, its head high, a diverse and vital nation, moving into its third century with confidence and competence and compassion, an America that lives up to the majesty of its Constitution and the simple decency of its people.I also discovered that the "I see an America" line has been used by Congressman Kucinich:
I see an America where equal access and equal rights are obtained by all.And John Edwards with the "I see and America" anaphora:
I see an America where last year the CEO of one of the largest health insurance companies in America made hundreds of millions of dollars in one year. I see an America where ExxonMobil's profits were $40 billion just a couple of years ago. Record amounts, record profits.Hell, a Republican running for Congress in the New York 20th named John Wallace used the "I see an America" anaphora.
And so it goes (Linda Ellerbee).
This is so embarrassing. Not as an Obama supporter; as a Democrat. This is what Hillary Clinton can scrape up for a substantive attack on the man who has pushed past her into the front-runner position? The public isn't buying the mandate problem (there isn't one; just ask Robert Reich, Bill Clinton's Secretary of Labor). But they are buying his message of getting past the ugliness of the past forty years — ugliness in which the Clintons played a major role, even if mostly as undeserving targets of hate. They have been incapable of delivering a sustained and credible attack on Obama's policy stands (which is no surprise as his are as detailed and beneficial for the country as hers), so they try to kneecap his greatest campaign advantage, the tool he has used to separate himself from her and bring his campaign to this position: his oratorical skill.
And once again shoot themselves in the foot:
In a conference call just now the Clinton campaign would not guarantee that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, has never used someone else's rhetoric without crediting them.I asked Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson and Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass, if they could assure the public that neither Clinton nor McGovern has ever done what Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, did when he used the rhetoric of Gov. Deval Patrick without footnoting him.
They would not.
In fact, Wolfson seemed to say it wouldn't be as big a deal if it were discovered that Clinton had "lifted" such language.
"Sen. Clinton is not running on the strength of her rhetoric," Wolfson said.
As Tapper concludes, "Hmmmm".
Yup, Obama and Deval Patrick traded words and ideas. Nope, not everything he says is 100% original (please find the quote where he says it is). But there is no denying that whether it's his words, Patrick's, Dr King's, or a farm workers' slogan, Obama's message is the one American is listening to. His is the voice that speaks for more of us than anyone else's. He is the person more and more of us are deciding can lead us and unite as others have failed.
And all Hillary Clinton has to offer in response to the growing rejection of her campaign is: Liar liar, pants on fire? What the hell is she going to do when something serious happens? Stick out her tongue?
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8:46 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
Man, I wish that Clinton would plagarize someone. Watching her try to be inspiring (see recent speech in Texas) is like watching my aging step-father try to be "cool" with my kids. Just painful.
Obama could be inspiring no matter how he comes across his words -- he's just got "it." The thing. The charisma (backed up by the specifics -- get over it) to change this campaign season and this nation.
Feb 18, '08
I just recently figured out why Obama does well in caucuses - because his supporters will make you feel like crap if you don't agree with them.
Feb 18, '08
Hillary - ready to whine on day one.
Feb 18, '08
Anon, thanks for illustrating my point perfectly.
Feb 18, '08
Thanks, TA.
Just think what Linda Ellerbee and Lloyd Dobyns could have done with this if they were still doing their old show ( was it called Overnight? Loved that show!).
For those who don't recognize the reference, it was a wonderful show which lasted at least part of the 1980s.
And so it goes (Linda Ellerbee) is not only a classic signoff, it was a wonderful book Linda Ellerbee wrote.
Feb 18, '08
I loved Linda Ellerbee! What's become of her?
9:23 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
Katy, you can't be serious. You think there's some sort of intimidation going on in the caucuses?
It's relatively clear that Barak does well in caucuses because he pulls in the people who pay attention. Hillary, on the other hand, has always received the bulk of her support from Democrats who don't.
But regardless, this is a cheap shot by Hillary. Weak as hell too, given that she clearly cribbed the whole "Change" mantra her campaign got into after Iowa off of him. The hypocrisy is a bit much.
Feb 18, '08
Between 1995 and 2000, Hillary Rodham Clinton published a column for Creators Syndicate called "Talking It Over." In her Dec. 30, 1995, column (which interestingly enough is not linked anywhere on her introductory page but is available at this URL: http://www.creators.com/opinion/hillary-clinton/talking-it-over-1995-12-30.html) Hillary laundry listed her New Years' resolutions for 1996.
"Like most people, I've made my share of New Year's resolutions. How many times in the past have I promised to do a better job of staying in touch with old friends, finishing my Christmas shopping before Dec. 24 and laying off the chips and cookies? More times than I care to remember. But that isn't stopping me from making faithful pledges again this year. Herewith, my resolutions for 1996 ...
"I will try to learn the difference between a hard drive and a floppy disk. "Having written a 320-page book in longhand over the last six months, I'm ready to join the ranks of the computer-competent."
The book to which she refers is her 1996 best-seller, "It Takes A Village To Raise A Child" with her authorship reinforced on her Senate web page (http://clinton.senate.gov/about/biography/index.cfm).
In December 2007, "Intellectual Conservative" web site wrote: "Since the book was first published in 1996, though, Hillary has repeatedly insisted she wrote the book herself ... Clinton has steadfastly refused to credit the actual writer, Barbara Feinman Todd. And this refusal to admit that small truth is odd since even the New York Times contradicts her claims. On April 22nd, 1995, as the book was in the planning stages, the Times reported that it was Feinman who was to do the heavy lifting for the project. In their '95 piece the Times stated, 'The book will actually be written by Barbara Feinman, a journalism professor at Georgetown University in Washington. Ms. Feinman will conduct a series of interviews with Mrs. Clinton, who will help edit the resulting text.' (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/12/17/it-takes-a-village-to-write-a-book/).
Feb 18, '08
Hillary did some "plagiarism" herself. Almost all the Republican senators said "Yea" to signing Bush's blank check for war on Iraq. She copied them without attribution. Same on the Patriot Act. Same on the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment to grease the skids for a war on Iran.
9:32 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
well, i only attended one caucus, and people from both sides treated one another with respect. i may have diminishing respect for Hillary, but i have taken crap from her supporters that i have not returned. i also speak out strongly against those who swear they'll never vote for Hillary. that's just stupid (remember 2000?).
what i have noticed is that Hillary supporters throw out unsubstantiated charges like your's -- and that constitutes a critique of Obama. i say she's a lesser candidate because she failed on Iraq; you say he's a lesser candidate because his supporters are meanies.
Feb 18, '08
"A cheap shot by Hillary?" Are you serious? She didn't give a speech that someone else gave, word for word, 2 years ago! Can you just for one split second admit that Obama made a mistake?
9:44 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
Linda's been at Nick since 1991, doing children's programming (and doing it exceedingly well: winning 3 Peabodies). NickNews is still going strong.
here's a great 15-year retrospective that shows what she's been doing. she's as great as ever!
9:44 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
I want to say that the permission of the plagiarized does not make it not plagiarism. You are guilty of it if you substantially copy another's work without attribution.
That said, it's a speech and not a scholarly work. It's spoken, not written. The speakers share top level messaging people. And from my reading, the passages are no more than similarly inspired.
This is another bad choice of attack for Clinton, IMO.
9:46 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
On the "plagiarism" attack, per Carrie Budoff Brown at Obama's press conference in Niles, Ohio:
"He has occasionally used lines of mine. I have occasionally used some words of his. I know Sen. Clinton has used words of mine as well. I don’t think that is something that workers here are concerned about," he said, adding that "I'm sure I should have" given credit to Patrick.
Bottom line: "I really don’t think this is too big of a deal," Obama said.
Politico.com
Feb 18, '08
What I like best about the whole circus on this today was Barack's response. Despite having his friend's permission to use the phrase, Barack said something to the effect of "I am sure that I should have given him credit."
Nice to see a candidate admit a mistep, even if it was a benign one.
Feb 18, '08
Meanwhile, a couple people I talk to are still hoping for a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket. Not gonna happen.
I read in the news the other day that Edwards is supposedly leaning toward endorsing Clinton.
...what?
10:02 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
I guess all candidates better watch out, as many speeches are filled with lines and phrases they've gotten from others. Often times the candidate doesn't even know, because their speechwriter was the one who heard it and incorporated it.
The kinds of attacks are just silly and do nothing to show voters why you're the better candidate.
I can't wait to see how the results go in my home state. The Clintons were not that popular in Texas, regardless of them being from the neighboring state. I lived there for all of Clinton's presidency, minus the last 6 months or so. He was sorta liked among Dems, but she was definitely not liked.
10:09 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
Katy: She didn't give a speech that someone else gave, word for word, 2 years ago!
Word for word?
Deval Patrick: "Her dismissive point that I hear from her - and I hear it a lot from her staff - is that all I have to offer is words. Just words. <pause> 'We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal'. Just words, just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself' <pause> 'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country'"
Barak Obama: "Don't tell me words don't matter! 'I have a dream!' Just words? 'We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.' Just words? 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself' Just words?"
Sorry, Katy. They're clearly of the same theme, but equally clearly not "word for word" repetition, unless you count the famous quotes and quoting the Clinton campaign attack that Obama is using "just words".
That's not plagiarism, period. And yes, it's a totally cheap attack by Hillary.
Feb 18, '08
In my perspective this story highlights the political genius of David Axelrod, who has worked with both Patrick and Obama. Axelrod has helped develop the narrative that is inspiring voters across the country and will create the new progressive majority.
When Howard Dean was the hottest thing since sliced bread everyone was ready to coronate Joe Trippi as the greatest consultant ever. It's time to give Axelrod his due. Since 2004 he's taken State Senator Barack Obama and turned him into the front runner for the Democratic nomination while bringing Deval Patrick from relative obscurity to a 20-point victor on election day. He has also worked with Eliot Spitzer and Rahm Emanuel.
10:24 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
a bigger problem for me is that i listen to more than a few of his speeches, and i hear some of the same things over and over. i am really tired of the "cousin" dick cheney joke, but i'm guessing many folks ain't heard it cuz it still gets laughs.
i bet in a few days, post-Wisconsin, he finds a way to turn this around into another humorous dig. like the kindergarten thing.
meanwhile, turns out Obama did not get any special deal at all for his house in Chicago. had to raise his offer, too. Bloomberg.com
Feb 18, '08
Even better is the wacky stuff circulating in the blogosphere about the "suspicious" fainting spells suffered by sweet young things at Obama rallies.
Young white women fainting for a black man's....what exactly? That's the subtext of this absurdity.
But no, I do not associate this fainting rumor with Clinton.
Feb 18, '08
"So it goes" is the repetitive line used by Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 (Slaughterhouse Five). It was plagiarized by Linda Ellerbee.
Feb 18, '08
God bless you, Mr. Trout. Was thinking the same thing myself. I guess that caps off this thread.
11:28 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
wrong, Gil. can't let a disparaging word against one of the finest people to ever work in television slide by like that.
next time i get a chance to find her book, i'll look for the source of the tagline. i'm pretty sure she cops to taking it (and, you'll note, expanding it and extending its meaning) from Vonnegut. she's too honest to do otherwise.
Feb 18, '08
Obama said it first in 2004:
link
The accusations coming out of Hillary's campaign today are tantamount to deliberate, bald-faced lies.
11:58 p.m.
Feb 18, '08
T.A., thanks for this. This story's been eating at me, too.
I'd put it like this: an essential quality of leadership is avoiding unnecessary conflicts, in order to focus energy on conflicts that matter.
In this case, there is exactly one person with standing to raise an objection: Deval Patrick. If he doesn't have a problem, where the hell does Hillary Clinton get off making an issue of it?
Plagiarism is not a crime, it is an ethical violation specific to certain professions like journalism and academia. Politics and rhetoric, like so many other art forms, involve lots of borrowing and give-and-take. As long as the "giver" isn't pissed at the "taker," any objections will ring false.
And distract the electorate from important issues.
Which seems to be a hallmark of this Clinton campaign.
Feb 18, '08
Gordon said, "Meanwhile, a couple people I talk to are still hoping for a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket. Not gonna happen.
I read in the news the other day that Edwards is supposedly leaning toward endorsing Clinton.
...what?"
I know this is off-topic, but please share the source Gordon. I'm curious
Feb 19, '08
Posted by: Katy | Feb 18, 2008 8:52:08 PM
I just recently figured out why Obama does well in caucuses - because his supporters will make you feel like crap if you don't agree with them.
Attacking Obama's supporters does nothing but harm to your candidate, Katy. It's characteristic of the envious supporters of a losing campaign. 'They're brainwashed!'
Posted by: Katy | Feb 18, 2008 9:32:49 PM
"A cheap shot by Hillary?" Are you serious? She didn't give a speech that someone else gave, word for word, 2 years ago! Can you just for one split second admit that Obama made a mistake?
That's a nice parsing of words. Unfortunately, Hillary has copied speeches in a much more dubious fashion as she didn't OK it with the writer. Let me direct you to a great blog post that exposes Hillary as a plagiarist:
Hillary: I see an America where we stand up to the oil companies...
And so forth. It was a seriously awesome section of her Jefferson-Jackson speech. It's a shame that (again, as long as the gloves are off and there has to be this ridiculous "plagiarism" debate) she lifted the "I see an America" anaphora from other politicians, including then-Governor Jimmy Carter. June, 1976:
I also discovered that the "I see an America" line has been used by Congressman Kucinich:
And John Edwards with the "I see an America" anaphora:
Welcome to politics, Katy. Before you decide to wade into this pool any deeper, I suggest you learn how it works.
Feb 19, '08
It's not plagiarism simply because some are too uninformed to know the obvious and very public source that inspired the statements.
Hillary -don't blame Obama because you were the only one apparently not paying attention to memorable public statements made in front of huge crowds in Patrick's historic campaign. Don't assume the rest of us are as ignorant or uninformed as you apparently are. Invoking famous remarks by another similarly-situated speaker - express attribution is not required because the source is so obvious and well-known.
Is Hillary, a Senator and party insider, ignorant of the core themes of the Patrick campaign? Or was Hillary simply hoping to dup some voters on the eve of Wisconsin?
Feb 19, '08
how stupid are some people here! hillary trying to be cool??? yeah, because it takes a "COOL" president to lift our country from a recession. you guys are so stupid! this is REAL LIFE!!! leave it to the rich talentless celebrities to support obama, they don't know what real life is, and won't experience the poverty that the inexperienced obama will most likely put us to!
OPEN UP YOUR EYES PEOPLE!
lastly, IT IS political plagiarism! I totally agree with karl rove. FO SAME, OBAMA! And to the creepy obama cult fans, GET A DOSE OF REALITY! He's not all that!
2:18 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
This is so silly. Plagiarism is about stealing whole paragraphs and pages from someone else. Repeating a slogan isn't plagiarism -- especially if that slogan borders on cliche.
In Bill Clinton's first inaugural address he said:
Powerful people maneuver for position and worry endlessly about who is in and who is out, who is up and who is down, forgetting those people whose toil and sweat sends us here and pays our way.
Ten days ago, Hillary Clinton said at the Virginia Jefferson-Jackson Dinner:
For me, politics isn't a game. It's not about who is up, or who is down. It's about your lives, your families, and your future.
Is that plagiarism? Absolutely not. It's repeating a cliche.
Feb 19, '08
Will the Clintons please go away. This is becoming a national nightmare. Plagiarism? All he said was "just words" and quoted some immortal lines than everyone knew he didn't write.
Hillary and Bill are starting to remind me of the two Terminators from Terminator Two. You can't knock them out. They're going to fight and fight and fight ... until they or our country end up in molten lava (or whatever that glop was at the end of the movie).
Feb 19, '08
I'm with you. Clintons, go away. (Hillary stay in the senate and go back to doing what you were doing before, and cut this nonsense immediately. I am beginning to think you are becoming unglued.)
Feb 19, '08
After videos of Hillary stealing speech lines from both Obama and John Edwards yesterday on News headlines I believe it will have no effect...
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4308238
May even hurt her more for during the same and calling someone else out.
Feb 19, '08
The Clintons must be hurting money-wise. They are hurling everything, including the kitchen sink. Here's their latest ploy to try to reassure contributors they are in this thing.
They have a master plan to peel way pledged delegates from Obama, that is, get elected pledged delegates to flip, despite what voters elected them. I guess when you throw $175 million down the toilet on consultants like Mark Penn, this is what you come up with.
<hr/>http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/02/19/clinton_plans_to_target_obamas_pledged_delegates.html Clinton Plans to Target Obama's Pledged Delegates Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign "intends to go after delegates whom Barack Obama has already won in the caucuses and primaries if she needs them to win the nomination," Roger Simon reports.
"This strategy was confirmed to me by a high-ranking Clinton official on Monday. And I am not talking about superdelegates, those 795 party big shots who are not pledged to anybody. I am talking about getting pledged delegates to switch sides."
The reason: "Pledged delegates are not really pledged at all, not even on the first ballot. This has been an open secret in the party for years, but it has never really mattered because there has almost always been a clear victor by the time the convention convened."
Feb 19, '08
Its about time someone started saying something about the brainwashing this guy has been doing to our kids. watching this process is just been proof to me that just because they go to school doesn't automatically make them smarter. this whole same old pollitics message he is trying to use now is really just the same old pollitics and these idiots all follow there little groups and say. Yes I can. But in reallity we all know they cant. Hell the kids today cant even think for themselves. its a world of lets all get together and be a individual. Nice seeing someone finally saying his speeches are nothing new been seeing the samething said for years just many of you are to young to remember.
7:31 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
What most people seem to be missing about this is that the Clinton plagiarized the attack on Obama in the first place.
Kelly Healey, running against Deval Patrick for governor of Massachusetts, accused him of being all "words" and no substance. The Clinton campaign picked up this same exaCT attack on Barack Obama.
Why is it okay for the blonde white women to share attacks and wrong for their black male opponents to share answers?
To be fair, even Kelly Healey never took this argument as far as Hillary did and accuse Martin Luther King of being all words while Lyndon Johnson was the man who actually brought civil rights to black America.
7:36 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
Yawn!!!!
I'm still voting for Hillary.
Feb 19, '08
I think Hillary Clinton plagerized Republican Kerry Healey in her attacks of Deval Patrick. I mean afterall, she and her staff claimed that Patrick was all talk and no action and Hillary Clinton and her staff have done the same to Obama.
This is exactly how stupid her argument is when you get down to it.
Feb 19, '08
Hey Jack - sorry I wasn't plagerizing your work - I just didn't see yours first before I posted my comment!
Feb 19, '08
Obama-mania, Hillary-mania, empty campaigns, plagiarism, polls, middle names, last names, all this ruckus and debate..my head is spinning. Time to relax and calm down before the next wave tonight!
Peace out!
8:17 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
Moses, sorry it's a yawn for you -- to me this stuff is a real disappointment to me. I started this campaign season off as a big fan of Hillary, thinking she would make a very good president. But her judgment is looking more and more suspect every day. It's really disheartening.
8:53 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
Pete, its all politics. If Obama was not the "front-runner", he would be doing the exact same thing, trying his best to find a chink in her armor, using any issue he could. It is not an indictment of either candidate. Its all politics and you know what they say, all's fair in love and politics...
What it boils down to in my mind is "who is ready from day one to go into the White House and correct the eight years of failed Bush policies?" To me, that would be Hillary.
9:02 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
Moses, my disappointment with Hillary's conduct of her campaign started when she was the clear front runner. This is just the latest episode.
If "being ready" for the office is your bottom line, why not McCain? I have concerns about both Clinton and Obama's minimal experience. Either one of them will have to bring the very best they have to the office, to overcome very thin resumes.
I think either one is up to the task. But there's only one, at this point, that I'd be proud to have as my president.
9:12 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
The only Republican I'd ever vote for would be Tom McCall.. and his kind of republican passed away along time ago.
Feb 19, '08
WHO IS LARRY SINCLAIR AND WHY IS CNN HIDING IT?
9:42 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
Sadie, it isn't plagiarism for two people to reach the same conclusion when confronted by the same facts. :-)
Feb 19, '08
And if it is plagarism, then Hillary shouldn't say "Fired Up!".
This is not the first time I have recognized 2 people in different years (but with the same consultant) saying very similar things.
And there are definitions of plagarism which say "unauthorized use...". If Deval and Barack are friends, where is the evidence it is not authorized?
There is a great Ed Rollins line about someone being "not always on message with the truth".
If there were someone who said publicly, "Gee, it sounds like you are not on message with the truth", would they be guilty of plagarism if they didn't credit Ed Rollins?
Yeah, I know he is a Republican consultant. I follow his work because decades ago he was student body president at my college.
Feb 19, '08
This is from Truthdig on Fidel Castro's retirement speech: "Fidel Castro announced on Tuesday that he “neither will aspire to nor will I accept the position of president of the Council of State and commander in chief.”"
LBJ must be rolling over in his grave with Fidel filching one of his more famous lines.
Feb 19, '08
and another thing...
I'm tired of some bloggers out there refering to Obama supporters as OBAMABOTS and such. Isn't it Barack Obama who is garnering more support from educated democrats (and even some republicans) than Hillary Clinton?
As a feminist (yes men can be feminists too) I looked forward to Hillary's presidential run. I wanted Bill back in the White House as well. But fool me once, fool me twice... I want DIGNITY back in the White House!
Feb 19, '08
Obama has appeal to the vain in people. Not truth.
Feb 19, '08
Good for you, Jack.
Healy vs. Patrick sounds a lot like Hillary vs. Brack.
Feb 19, '08
About all we can be sure of is that if Obama wins today in Wisconsin and Hawaii, the spinmeisters (Clintonian or otherwise) will be telling us that THESE primaries don't really count, either.
11:40 a.m.
Feb 19, '08
"So It Goes" was a song by Nick Lowe, originally released in 1976: http://youtube.com/watch?v=56qwe_oYu9M "And So It Goes" was a ballad written by Billy Joel in 1983. Thus enduth thith dithcuthun.
Feb 19, '08
One thing about this and related threads is that they help prove the statements about Obama getting the better educated voters and Hillary the less well educated.
Feb 19, '08
Moses, you have to wonder about that whole day-one thing, when her campaign can't even manage to assemble a full slate of delegates in PA, her absolute last stand. She would still get the vote at the convention, but the truth is it makes her look unprepared and unorganized. Frankly, I fear she went into this like bush into Iraq--with shock and awe leading to feb 5--but without any plan after that, or a plan B in case Mission is not Accomplished. Which is probably why they didn't understand the TX system until just last week, and how it favors Obama district-wise.
Feb 19, '08
About all we can be sure of is that if Obama wins today in Wisconsin and Hawaii, the spinmeisters (Clintonian or otherwise) will be telling us that THESE primaries don't really count, either.
MSNBC had a segment last week where Clinton strategist Mark Penn had a conference call with reporters and he said something like "Obama has yet to win any significant states." It was a shockingly tin-eared quote, given that even if Clinton is the nominee, she'll need support in every one of the 20+ "insignificant" states that Obama has won.
The problem with a desparate campaign is that it often does things that may help in the short run, but hurt in the long run. As for Moses Ross's point that "it's all politics", I think that reinforces the reason some of us aren't supporting Clinton -- we don't like the same-old politics. You claim that Obama would be doing the same thing if he were behind, but he was behind for most of the last year and he wasn't engaging in this sorty of pettiness.
1:06 p.m.
Feb 19, '08
I believe Kos called it the "Insult 40 States" strategy. Amazingly tin-eared. :)
2:02 p.m.
Feb 19, '08
Moses -
you got anything to back that up, Moses, other than your own cyncism? Obama went from 20+ points behind to the lead without resort to this kind of business-as-usual politicking. he's had no need to find these kind of idiot arguments because his own message has proven overwhelmingly successful. the one time his campaign went down that road -- when someone from the campaign referred to her as "Sen Clinton, D-Punjab" -- he came down hard. there's been nothing of the sort since, despite the Clintons' various provocations. Obama is not just talking about doing politics different; he is doing politics different.
3:50 p.m.
Feb 19, '08
Moses - I couldn't disagree with you more. The shrill, generally hypocritical memes that Clinton is injecting in the campaign at this point are very much an indictment of her fitness to be the Democratic nominee.
Some of us have had more than our fill of the blatant hypocrisy that you appear to be shrugging off as "how the game is played".
The fact that Obama is not playing the game that way is one of the reasons he has come from 20 points down in the last 6 months to become the front-runner for the nomination.
Feb 19, '08
I agree with Sal.
Moses, you said,
"Pete, its all politics. If Obama was not the "front-runner", he would be doing the exact same thing, trying his best to find a chink in her armor, using any issue he could. It is not an indictment of either candidate. Its all politics and you know what they say, all's fair in love and politics..." is cynical, and not helping elect Democrats. "
One reason that Tom Bruggere got the nomination and then had such a tough time running against Gordon Smith in the fall of 1996, is this cynicism. It is the reason there are so many who have turned their back on partisan politics, the reason there were so many cynical former activists (as well as young people) who were inspired by the Oregon Bus Project and by Howard Dean. It is just that "money is all that matters and only professionals know how the game is played" attitude which says just shut up and let the professionals tell you what matters, what to believe, don't follow someone you find inspiring--unless "professionals" approve. The exact opposite of "We The People"! That attitude made me mad enough in 1996 to register NAV because that isn't the Democratic Party I belonged to in the 1980s.
Suppose Hillary gets the nomination in a way that makes people more cynical about politics than they are already. Will a fall campaign of "don't ask to be inspired, just know that I should be President because I am ready on day one to solve problems" really motivate people to be involved in the fall campaign?
As I have said before, anyone who admires a candidate should spend their spare time campaigning for that candidate. But "I admire this person, therefore you should vote for the person I admire" doesn't motivate very many people.
And then there is this story : http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/02/obama_campaign_manager_clinton.html?hpid=topnews
Obama Camp: Clinton Tactics 'Damaging to the Party' Sen. Barack Obama's (Ill.) campaign manager asserted in a conference call this morning that the tactics employed by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) in regard to the fight for Democratic delegates has the potential to fracture the party heading into the November election.
........
Just how do such tactics help anyone? Someone facing medical or dental bills, someone not working full time, someone who has to spend a lot of money just to commute to work and is told that political professionals are more important than they are. Why is all that pettiness really good for Democratic politics?
Feb 19, '08
Is this "word for word enough for you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgctsioisJg
6:17 p.m.
Feb 19, '08
you've not been paying much attention, Katy, neither here or elsewhere. there is no plagiarism, unless you want to cite every politician whose uttered the same phrases uttered by them what gone before. Obama & Patrick are friends, they've both used each other's lines & slogans; this isn't new. it also isn't news, is not important, and is not germane to anything except the bankruptcy of the Clinton campaign. the substance of her campaign has proven insufficient; she's lost her 20-point-plus lead nationally, and she's tanking badly. so they grasp at straws. as i said, as a Democrat, this is embarrassing. i expected much better from her.
Feb 19, '08
Yeah, I understand that they're friends and that they've said they share words. But c'mon, that was word for word -if the Clinton campaign had done this the Obama supporters would be all over this story. For a candidate whose biggest draw are his powerful speeches and moving words I think this is a pretty interesting story. To brush it aside as nothing just doesn't make any sense.
Feb 19, '08
For a candidate whose biggest draw are his powerful speeches and moving words I think this is a pretty interesting story.
It may be "a pretty interesting story" to you, Katy, but most people are getting tired of it. Of course, since Hillary is coming up short while Obama is gaining, your "interesting story" is just one of a few dwindling straws you have left to clutch to.
Feb 20, '08
You mean a political candidate actually engaged in a cheap shot? ::shocking::
Come on. If Hillary were ahead, the Obama campaign would be taking cheap shots, too. I find them both to be distasteful. I'm still writing in Kucinich. He's the one candidate (aside from Paul) who is least status quo.
Feb 20, '08
Katy, has Hillary never used Bill's words?
Has Hillary never said "Fired Up!" or anything else from some other politician?
Gee, 2 candidates I really admired in 2 different election years had the same advisor and very similar themes. Should I have thought less of them (one was a personal friend) if anyone ever caught both of them saying the same words in a different year?
Is Hillary Clinton not copying Healy's attacks on Patrick? Who won that election--Patrick or Healy?
Feb 20, '08
Every week or so I check to see what folks are saying about the Democratic primary. It's remains a bunch of smack; trivial horserace chatter that distracts us from what is real and what matters. What are Obama and Clinton saying about the precarious condition of the US dollar? How about $100/barrel crude oil? How does hope for continued economic growth affect the ability to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? What happens the next time New Orleans is flooded by a hurricane? How does a democracy function when information flow is dominated by a few huge corporations?
Let me know when something worth discussing is being discussed.
Feb 20, '08
Please check out this Chris Mathews Hardball segment written about on Huffington Post last night.
Peace Out!
Feb 20, '08
Let me know when something worth discussing is being discussed.
Good point, Tom. The problem is that the opposition comes up with so many dishonest and questionable stories that we have to take time out to make sure they don't get away with it.
Please check out this Chris Mathews Hardball segment written about on Huffington Post last night.
Opinionated: Go to Media Matters and search for "Chris Matthews" to find many examples of Motormouth making an ass of himself. And get your spelling right. The windbag has two "t"s in his last name.