Tiller was in danger of losing his medical license at the time of his death.

The Kansas Board of Healing Arts found multiple instances during a short time frame where Tiller violated the law by performing an abortion without getting an independent referral from a physician with whom he had no financial ties.

Far worse than 'performing abortions on a whim', this suggests that money was a primary motivation.

Probably the women who were involved in these instances had no idea that he was utilizing them in this fashion, and they may have been told that he was their only hope. So their report of him would obviously be glowing praise, because they were ignorant of the fact that he was committing a crime.

I personally have known a number of women who were told that their baby, if carried to term, would likely be severely deformed, retarded, etc for various reasons, only to see them later give birth to a perfectly normal child.

OJ Simpson was acquitted as well.

OJ Simpson was acquitted as well.

I linked to the KBHA action against Tiller.

You didn't read it, did you?

It was filed AFTER his acquittal in court.

KBHA does not need a criminal conviction to pull a medical license.

Carla, your credibility is sinking every time you post. Give it up, girl.

Yes, I read it. I also read several news stories about the acquittal of Dr. Tiller.

The fact that tiller was acquitted in the courts on the very issue that the Kansas Medical Board was looking into doesn't bode well for the idea that his license would be in trouble. Nor does it add up well for your "it was for the money" chestnut.

Carla,

I linked to the KBHA action against Tiller.

You didn't read it, did you?

It was filed AFTER his acquittal in court.

KBHA does not need a criminal conviction to pull a medical license.

Your credibility is sinking each time you post, Carla. Give it up, girl.

Joe -- You mentioned the following:

"Probably the women who were involved in these instances had no idea that he was utilizing them in this fashion, and they may have been told that he was their only hope. So their report of him would obviously be glowing praise, because they were ignorant of the fact that he was committing a crime."

While I can't speak for all the women and their families that went to see Dr. Tiller, I can speak for those women that I had experiences with . . . they are educated on what their risks and the risks for the baby are . . . they are given all their options, and then they must make the decision that is best for them. Seeing Dr. Tiller was an extreme last resort, when by law, their only options were, 1)risk serious complications (which some chose) or 2)consider a consult with Dr. Tiller. When I was dealing with prenatal genetics, there were only 2 physicians in the whole US that were able to help women in these situations

I also know women that got incorrect information when their fetus was screened for abnormalities . . . in high risk pregnancies, high risk screens (much better than used in general population) and diagnostic tests are utilized (and in these cases very often repeated). Many women (and sometimes their healthcare providers) misinterpret what a pregnancy "screen" is. It does NOT mean their baby will have the associated syndrome and/or abnormality . . . it means they are at a higher risk for this happening and a diagnostic test should be performed. This is the same system they use with many medical problems, including diabetes -- you get a blood "screening" test, but this needs to be confirmed with a diagnostic test before you actually have diabetes. High level ultrasounds and diagnostic tests are VERY effective in the prenatal world.

And lastly, Tiller wasn't "committing a crime," he had permission from the state of Kansas to help women in these situations. And was not proven to be in violation of these rights.

For the last time---the possibility of someone's license being pulled, the possibility of someone having run afoul of a law, the idea that someone doesn't like someone else's views or the work they do, IS NO EXCUSE FOR A MURDER IN A CHURCH FOYER!

Truly pro-life groups understand that. Those who don't understand the fury some have at the idea that it was OK to shoot someone in a church foyer will never understand why their cause is not attracting new supporters.

What if a child had walked into the foyer when the gun was shot. Would that be OK?

What if a pregnant woman had walked into the foyer and the shock of seeing the murder had caused her to miscarry?

So tired of hearing "abortion is murder therefore it is not really murder when an abortionist is killed".

Joe, When Carla baby is wrong she goes mum. She's gone mum. Two years ago I nailed her and she went silent, mum.

Billy Ray,

Carla's not got mum. She's reloading...just wait....

Also, did it not occur to you that she might actually have, you know, a LIFE to live outside of BO?

Patience, Billy Ray, patience....

Joe White:

Tiller was in danger of losing his medical license at the time of his death.

The Kansas Board of Healing Arts found multiple instances during a short time frame where Tiller violated the law by performing an abortion without getting an independent referral from a physician with whom he had no financial ties.

Bob T:

I doubt that his killer used that sort of information as the deciding factor, or that he wasn't above murdering anyone who performed abortions at any stage.

The main thing is that anyone participating in that kind of service not allow this murder to make them find new work, just as those in Europe shouldn't let the murder of Mr. Van Gogh and the death threats on his friend the female Dutch-Muslim politician and 20+ fatwah against Salman Rushdie (which was supported by Cat Stevens, Mr. "Peace Train") put a damper on free expression.

Bob Tiernan Portland

I don't see anyone disputing that the murderer is a horrible person, and that murdering someone is a horrible and obviously unjustified thing to do, and that he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

What I do find odd, is how apparently getting murdered turns a scumbag into a hero upon whom we should lavish praise.

Tiller was a wart on the ass of humanity. His untimely death does not change that.

Luke -- Did you know Dr. Tiller? Because anyone who uses such harsh names about someone, must know them. If not, I ask you to stop defaming the name of someone you don't know. It is okay if you don't believe in what he did, but that does not make him a bad person. Respect his family and friends by making a valid arguement and not name-calling. Feel free to take a stance against abortion doctors and pro-choicers, but name-calling just makes you sound ugly. This unfortunate situation has brought out alot of ugliness, hate and uneducated comments in people . . . which is sad.

Oregonian37 and LT,

I do not excuse the murder of Dr Tiller.

I think the murderer should get the maximum sentence. Does that satisfy you?

I would not approve the murder of an abortionist, or a crack dealer or any other low life.

Abortion should be an option if the life of the mother is seriously at risk. I think nearly everyone would agree with that. But these critical situations are very few and far between.

Aborting a child because the mom had a fight with the boyfriend is a heinous act.

Most abortions are done for frivolous reasons. (I don't have the money to raise him, I wanna finish college, etc) Well, I have one word in answer to that: Adoption

Almost all of the ridiculous, selfish reasons for abortion (even Planned Parenthood's PR firm admits that it's so ) are defended by liberals for reasons of political power.

They subjugate women and frighten them into thinking that only THEY really care about their future.

Leaving women to live with the haunting memory that they killed their child is not the way to help them build a future.

I would like to read a post by a woman defending the idea that abortion should be legal for sex selection.

If the couple doesn't want a girl, is that a valid reason to kill her?

Can we please get an ignore option.

In the Name of God

I woke up this morning

And I turned on the news

It was a Sunday morning

They were sitting in the pews

The doctor's wife was in the choir

She was about to sing

She saw it all in front of her

And she heard that awful ring

In the name of God he held his pistol

Pointed at the doctor's head

In the name of God he pulled the trigger

Now the doctor's lying dead

Dr. Tiller had a family

Three daughters and a son

Two girls were both doctors

Who were proud of what he'd done

They knew someone had to do something

Before they left this world behind

If it wasn't them then who would serve

The cause of womankind

In the name of God...

This is not Afghanistan

It's the Heartland USA

Where a girl has to wonder

If she'll get acid in her face

Where they bomb the women's clinics

Because the preacher told them to

Where the man there on the TV

Tells them that's what they should do

In the name of God...

• David Rovics

What's the matter BOHICA?

Can't handle questions that make you think?

Can't handle opinions other than your own?

Wassup with the 'tolerant' people these days?

Nice ad homs Carla.

Your 'logic' is overwhelming.

So, you gonna defend sex selection or not?

Carla,

That seems to be a common problem on the right. It also seems that the right is stuck in a state of permanent infantilism--just read some of the local righty blogs.

I read tolerably well, Carla, thanks.

I also write what you're not going to be able forget for a long time.

Your inability to defend your position when asked a simple question is gonna follow you around and talk in your ear for a good long while.

Your emotional defense of abortion is in the way of any logical defense. You're so busy justifying past actions that you dare not question them rationally.

Teenagers get roped into making poor decisions and then try to justify them their whole life long.

Hello fbear,

Long time no see.

How 'bout you defend sex selection abortion for us?

Democrats are supposed to be the party concerned with women.

Should a girl get the death penalty for being a girl?

Joe,

Nice change of topic.

How 'bout you defend anti-abortion terrorism.

I've condemned the Tiller murder, fbear. From day one.

Catch up.

Well, this thread is going about as expected.

Joe, the only thing I would add is that you are making moral judgments/arguments based on your beliefs. They are not my beliefs. They are not my wife's beliefs. We do not believe that all "life" is equal. The spontaneous abortions that naturally occur in the first 2-3 months of up to 50% of all pregnancies are not equivalent to the death of a child. The voluntary decision to have a medical abortion is not equivalent to infanticide. Taking a comatose, brain-dead person off of life support is not the same as intentionally starving to death a conscious, functional human being. Helping someone with a debilitating, fatal disease to end their life in the way they want is not the same as pushing someone off a bridge.

And that, my friend, is why I will vigorously fight your attempt to impose your morals on me or anyone else who doesn't agree with you. These are unsettled areas of personal morality, and as such you do not have the right to impose your beliefs. Fight for your beliefs all you want, but until you can persuade a supermajority of the public that you're right, your beliefs about abortion are as relevant to me as my beliefs about God are relevant to you.

Joe said: "Leaving women to live with the haunting memory that they killed their child is not the way to help them build a future."

Along with a lot of the stuff you written, I'm personally offended at your insistence that women don't have brains of their own, and don't have hearts.

I'm only assuming, but 'Joe' sounds like a male name. You will never be able to get pregnant, therefore your opinions are worthless.

sarah wrote:

"I'm personally offended at your insistence that women don't have brains of their own, and don't have hearts."

Nice strawman, sarah.

I've 'insisted' no such thing. Nor have I implied it.

Use the brain that you insist you have to read my post again, and you'll see your error.

all I see is that you are a paternalistic a-hole.

Miles wrote:

"you are making moral judgments/arguments based on your beliefs."

And so do you.

So what?

You make moral judgements every day, as we all do.

You have an absolute morality that you adhere to, as we all do. (Don't even kid yourself. Anytime you tell someone else that they have done wrong, you are appealing to your own absolute moral standard, whether you realize it or not.)

When you advocate your own views, you seek to 'impose your morality' on the rest of us.

Every law on the books is based on SOMEONE'S idea of what is right and what is wrong.

Quit pretending otherwise.

The pro-life segment of the population is steadily growing, and it scares you to be out of sync.

Especially the young are much more pro-life than their elders.

Post Roe v Wade kids look at that decision and say 'My parents coulda snuffed me for no reason. Not a good idea.'

Young adults look at modern medical advances such as sonograms of their babies and say 'Look at that. It's not just a blob of tissue after all. The pro-abortion rhetoric is a bunch of lies.'

The future is pro-life, Miles.

Fortunately the pro-abort crowd also tends to have fewer children.

We'll replace you in a few years, and we'll teach the few kids you did have that they shouldn't kill theirs.

So at least you'll have a family line, even though they probably won't share your values.

If you didn't have any kids, that's just less work to clean up after you.

Abortion is headed for the dustbin of history.

Try explaining to your kids why it would've been alright if you killed them.

You'll see why your view won't last.

wow sarah

You been taking 'logic' lessons from Carla?

paternalistic.

You make moral judgements every day, as we all do.

The difference, Joe, is that I don't try to impose my beliefs on you. Trust me, I have strong beliefs about religion and the damage that has been done by God's followers who use religion to justify just about every atrocity imaginable. But it has never even occurred to me to try to change the way you or others worship or to restrict your ability to do so. And, in my moral judgement, that makes me a better person than you are.

The future is pro-life, Miles.

Game on, Joe.

Miles wrote:

".......God's followers who use religion to justify..... "

And I trust you understand the difference between 'use' and 'misuse', Miles.

And in spite of the occasional misuse of religion, I would still point out that over past few centuries, the predominantly Christian nations (Europe and America) have built the highest standard of living and established a much greater degree of freedom for all citizens than any other nation has seen in all of human history.

You can kid yourself that they didn't consciously try to build their society on largely Christian principle, but you know they did.

Their record is not without some failures no doubt. And no one will pretend that they have implemented their principles perfectly. But the overall success is hard to argue with. Though I'm sure you'll try.

I will readily acknowledge that abortion is one more form of birth control.

But Joe White and fellow travelers just cannot acknowledge that they're committed to controlling women's bodies.

"Their record is not without some failures no doubt."

"some failures"---nice way to describe centuries of abuse, torture, war, rape, murder and lying.

Saying the church's record has "some failures" is like saying that the ocean has "some moisture".

But back to the point you seem to keep missing, Joe....why should you get to impose your belief system on everyone else? What makes yours right? Because you diety said so? I don't believe in your diety, so why the hell should I obey his/her rules?

And I agree with Miles, you are WAY out of touch with what the younger generation believes....see, when you only listen to one side or one group, you only see them and think they are the majority. They are not. As for whether the country is heading toward anti-choice or pro-choice.....well, like Miles said---game on.

The anti-choice crowd in scared shitless since the Dems are in control. They're aren't more of you, you're just screaming louder. And you've already lost....abortion is legal, even the ones Dr TIller performed. Take your paternalistic, condescending, judgmental attitude and go preach to someone you have a hope in hell of persuading....that means somewhere other than BO.

And in spite of the occasional misuse of religion, I would still point out that over past few centuries, the predominantly Christian nations (Europe and America) have built the highest standard of living and established a much greater degree of freedom for all citizens than any other nation has seen in all of human history.

Hmm, golly gee whiz, I wonder if this standard of living has anything to do with 5+ centuries of colonial expeditions (witness that Blue Oregon is based in Portland, USA, not Portland, UK), imperial adventures, and theft of both human (slave) and nonhuman resources from the benighted non-Christian world?

Oh my, now how could I ever write that? Obviously I hate America. Obviously I hate both America and Christianity, and yea, verily, my soul shall burneth in Hell.

As long as provocation is the order of the day here, let me propose a clean break. The Christianists get Dixie, say, and the rest of us get on with the business of building a sane society. They can have their "Christian" "republic" with Jesus' face on every classroom wall and in every public place, right next to the flag.

Joel, are you proposing destroying the United States?

Most liberals have ideas that will destroy this country, but few are so candid about it.

You are to be commended for your openness regarding your desire to rip apart the greatest country on earth.

Ms Mel Harmon wrote:

".... you are WAY out of touch with what the younger generation believes......"

As I've told others, try explaining to your kids that it would've been alright if you had aborted them.

They'll turn pro-life right before your eyes.

Go ahead. I dare you.

When sixteen out of forty-four posts on this thread are placed by one person it has lost its purpose. Enough of the ignorant, hateful crap Joe. Goodbye.

The fact that everybody in these Tiller threads seem to be missing is that very few of the "abortion-is-murder-crowd" believe what they say.

Think about it.

If you believed that many doctors and nurses were in fact mass baby murderers, and no one would do anything about it, wouldn't you start killing the mass baby murderers? I would, and I've never killed any human being in my life.

No, the people who have consistently gotten your panties in a bunch are bullshit artists who don't have the courage of their claimed convictions. And that's the real end of the conversation.

And let's be truthful: The fact is that we are a nation of bullshit artists who are rarely willing to put our own asses on the line for anything. Not for murder, not for torture, not for health care, not for peace and justice.

We are as much at war at home as in Iraq. Those who reject Jesus will reject us as well. We have declared war. Besides the moral facts that necessitate Jesus' ultimate victory as Lord over all humanists and baby killers, there is the matter that the left is physically incapable of fighting back.

I take great comfort from this blog. There have been many times, and you can use the archives and see for yourself, where one or two liberals get up the courage to talk about denying us our tax subsidies, our tax breaks for having families, and undercutting the privileged status Christianity enjoys in America. A few even talk of physically dealing with the "threat" we pose, in situations like the one this post describes. A few have described the connection between real estate, banking, population growth, virtue and American prosperity. In every case it is the regular members of the Democratic party that come to our aid and slap those trolls silly. You can trumpet gay rights and politically correct speech, but NEVER ONCE has a representative of the Catholic Church been denied time on The News Hour or NPR, or BO, or ANY bastion of left wing thought. They openly preach that GLBT will be the end of humanity and are evil incarnate. They do so with impunity and your respected organs pay them to appear and tell you that. When was the last time Karen Damman or the like appeared on an evangelical show? You are so pitiful.

Given that we will act, given that our sons and daughters get to practice the art of killing heathens on your dime, do you really think that right will not prevail?

Bless our troops, bless every child, and God bless America!

personally have known a number of women who were told that their baby, if carried to term, would likely be severely deformed, retarded, etc for various reasons, only to see them later give birth to a perfectly normal child.

Don't be shy! Admit you're the case in point!

Joe White remains irony-challenged. And by the way he still won't acknowledge his determination to control women's bodies.

"Bev Ann" is exactly the sort of Christian Dominionist whom I'd prefer to see hermetically sealed in a cave somewhere so as to protect this fragile republic of ours. Nice rhetoric from her:

Given that we will act, given that our sons and daughters get to practice the art of killing heathens on your dime, do you really think that right will not prevail?

"Practice the art of killing heathens"?? My, isn't the blogosphere wonderful. People get to issue all sorts of thinly veiled death threats with no consequences whatsoever.

"Bev Ann", would you like the collected works of Tim LaHaye in that cave of yours so you can savor, once again, his (and your) sadistic fantasies? And when the Rapture comes, can I have your car?

"and undercutting the privileged status Christianity enjoys in America."

As Keith O. would say. WTF?

"We are as much at war at home as in Iraq. Those who reject Jesus will reject us as well. We have declared war. Besides the moral facts that necessitate Jesus' ultimate victory as Lord over all humanists and baby killers, there is the matter that the left is physically incapable of fighting back."

Thanks for the reminder, Bev, of the filth, hate and overwhelming delusion that have possessed so many so-called "Christians." This hate-filled rant calling for jihad and terrorism against "the left" would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that terrorism is seen as a legitimate tactic in the right-wing/Christianist mind. The "pro-life" crowd obviously has no qualms about ending lives when they don't agree with the fanatics' seventh-century fantasies. Oh, and Bev? I, and millions of others on "the left" are more than willing and able to physically fight back against Internet cowards like you. I would not abort a child of mine, but I will fight lunatics like you to the death to protect the rights of other Americans to make their own decisions. If its war you want, then I guarantee you that you and your ilk are not going to be the ones that end it.

Dismissed.

wow it's taken longer than I thought it would for liberals to start posting fake posts like the 'Bev Ann' post.

I've seen this tactic so many times, it's ridiculous.

Joe White, still waiting for you to acknowledge your desire to CONTROL WOMEN'S BODIES.

<hr/>

The Blessing of the Rifles

Dr. Tim Harlow Senior Pastor Parkview Christian Church

cc: Jill Stanek Pro-Life Pulse

Dear Pastor Harlow,

I'll admit it I'm ashamed that so many of us in the compelled birth movement have been slow to target another abortion provider so soon after Dr. Tiller's assassination. I guess we're just a little too afraid of being accused of inciting murder. But thank God one of your parishioners is made of stronger stuff. Jill Stanek couldn't even wait until Tiller's family had laid him to rest before announcing the next target, Dr. LeRoy Carhart. It's no wonder she's recognized as a national leader of the compelled birth movement.

And I have to say, she's assembled a fantastic intelligence dossier on him, complete with photos of his clinic and links to a page listing his home and work addresses as well as photos of his wife and daughter. Lord knows, that's the kind of information the shooters will need.

I have to wonder, however, if you're giving her as much help as she deserves. I mean, hey, she's providing a lot of free publicity for your church, I think the least you could do is offer to hold a rifle blessing service in her honor.

I hope you'll consider doing so.

Heterosexually yours,

Gen. JC Christian, patriot

p.s. Please keep an eye on your associate pastors. A couple look a little "funny" to me.

Joel,

Tell us your view on overpopulation.

Are there too many people? And if so, what is your plan for 'correcting it'?

Even if you don't think there are too many people overall, are there certain types of people who shouldn't be allowed to have children?

What types of people would you include in this category?

Joe White:

Your questions are off-topic, but WTF. It seems that this finite Earth's resources are having an increasingly hard time supporting an expanding human population and especially the sort of lifestyle we expect in the West. I have a hard time seeing how we are not headed for serious problems, probably not in my lifetime (I am in my 50s), but in my kids'. I certainly think encouraging small families is a good thing. And no, I do not select any categories of humans who should not reproduce.

Your turn. Are you committed to controlling women's bodies? And if not, then what motivates your anti-abortion stance?

Chris I DEARLY wish you were on board to help write and advocate with us for a situation arising at FOrt Peck Indian Reserve wherein the predatory law is becoming more and more exposed... MAN, I'd give anything to have you in the mix on research!

Joel wrote:

"what motivates your anti-abortion stance?"

The fact that the unborn is small and weak and defenseless and unable to speak for himself/herself should not prevent us from protecting them.

Abortion is the classic 'might makes right' scenario.

It's wrong to kill someone just because you can get away with it and they are unable to oppose you.

Joe,

I don't have kids, so that's a non-starter.

But I was curious, so I put your argument forth to a friend while visiting at her house. She called in her two sons, ages 24 and 22, who were visiting and said to them:

"You both know I'm pro-choice. Under the right cirsumstances, I could--and would---have aborted you. How does that make you feel?"

22-year-old: "Huh? I don't know. I mean, it's not like you DID abort me. I guess if you did I wouldn't care cause I wouldn't be here to care. So, whatever."

24-year-old: "I don't get it. I know you're pro-choice, but you CHOSE to have us. If you had chosen NOT to have us, we simply wouldn't BE. If having me would have screwed up your life, then you shouldn't have had me I guess. Do you with you hadn't had us?"

Friend/mother: "No. Someone just put forth the argument that if children were told that their parent was okay with aborting them, that the child would become pro-life. I wanted to see what your reaction would be."

24-year-old: "That's stupid. Just cause you COULD have and MIGHT HAVE done something you DIDN'T do, I'm going to say you shouldn't be allowed to do what you didn't do? HUH?"

22-year-old: "Your argument is without logic."

24-year-old: "I told you, knock it off with the Spock jokes!"

I'll stop there since the discussion then devolved into Star Trek, Vulcans, and what pizza they were ordering for dinner (the boys, not the Vulcans).

But thanks, Joe, interesting exercise. Sorry, these two didn't turn pro-life, but maybe the next two will. I have no doubt yours will since you are undoutedly raising them on right-wing garbage and fear...but that's your problem, not mine.

Joe White, you're still avoiding writing word one about the women whose wombs you want to control.

Hey Man-hater Sarah:

You told Joe that he was a man and could not get pregnant and therefore his opinions are worthless. Hmm...I'm beginning to think that it is the liberals who are tearing themselves apart. I mean, this very post is written about a MAN who had his own opinions about abortion that you all are lamenting and deeming "hero."

And by the way MILES, what's so wrong with making moral judgements based upon your beliefs? I mean, what the hell, that is essentially what the anti-life do!??? Are you insinuating that we do away with a moral system? If that is what all of you believe, then why are we debating the "awful" death of this man?

As for you, "fetuskiller," are you suggesting that pro-life groups should assemble and start whacking "fetuskillers" such as yourself...helllllooo: a man did do that & it's why we are posting!! That sort of reasoning isn't congruent with the pro-life stance. That man was an outlier. But for "convenience reasons" you will all group him with the rest of us. You all sure do like convenience, don't you?

Keep more posts coming like this and people will be jumping the fence to get the hell away from you.

What I would really like to see is a one-on-one debate between Carla and Joe, but Carla would just use her tactic of saying that Joe is deterring. Has Joe ever used that tactic? Hmm, must be another convenience thing for the liberals.

Joel,

Do you complain to the city about posting speed limits because 'they're trying to control your feet'?

Proposing that abortion is suitable as an option for controlling the population is really ill-formed. Realizing that most abortions are for "convenience reasons" suggests that women do, indeed, want children just not at that moment in their life cycle. I'd be willing to bet, too, that the majority of women that get pregnant at "inconvenient" times and keep their children go on to have the same amount of children as those who do abort and then have children at more convenient times.

Interesting to note, I asked someone to ask their young adult children how they would feel if their mom would have aborted them instead of an earlier child. They responded with disdain, citing that they would have surely missed out on all of their passions of their life like Star Wars. They also wondered if being suffocated and dismembered would have been worth sacrificing their lives so that a child who came along at a more "convenient time" could be given the chance at life.

Here's how the conversation went:

Mom: Kids, you came at a time in my life after an abortion.

Kid #1: Really? So we could have had another sibling?

Mom: Yes, but I did what was right at the time. I just wasn't ready for kids yet.

Kid #2: Well how did you know that you were ready for us?

Kid #1: Yeah, that could have just as easily been us!

Kid #2: Yeah, I mean, think of all of the things that we would have missed out on, like Star Wars!

Kid #1: Gosh, I wonder what enduring that kind of death would be like?

This family is going to need a lot of therapy.

crickets

Hello Joel?

Do you?