Act or React: Which Way for Dems?

Jeff Alworth

Have you listened to a Republican lately?  Periodically, I'm caught off-guard when I hear something like this exchange between Firedoglake's Jane Hamsher and Townhall's Amanda Carpenter.  Carpenter, reflexively voicing tired old talking points, offers the GOP as a paragon of fiscal management.  Hamsher fires back a volley about Iraq mismanagement, and Carpenter continues zombie debating:

Hamsher: That was definitely the product of a Republican administration, a Republican Congress.  How can you say--this is one of the biggest boondoggles of American fiscal policy?

Carpenter: Well, I mean, I'm not, ah, I don't want to completely dispatch with--I'm not saying things [haven't] gotten bad.  Spending's out of control.  It's what's cost Republicans the 2006 elections.  Absolutely.  The answer isn't just to point the finger and say "Oh! you did it wrong."  How are you going to stop this thing?  Are Democrats going to stop it. No.  They have no interest in doing things like privatizing Social Security...

Hamsher: [visibly shocked]  Americans are really upset at the idea that someone wants to privatize Social Security.

The discussion continues in this strange failure to agree on an objective reality.  For the modern GOP, from hacks on blogs to talking heads on cable all the way to Bush and McCain, rhetoric of this variety has assumed the form of magical incantation.  For twenty-eight years, the GOP has been able to recite certain words--a rich stew of cultural populism, foreign-policy fear mongering, economic fantasy, and nationalism--and win elections.  Yet for at least a decade Republicans have forgotten the policy solutions to which these words were nominally connected, and sometimes they seem to forget that the words ever related to policy. 

Democrats seem to have as much fear of the incantations as the GOP have confidence in them.  For so long, it has been obvious to anyone with a passing familiarity with public policy that Republicans have been a disaster for America, yet until 2006 they kept winning elections.  Dems have grown quite reasonably gun-shy, and it's no wonder they don't have a lot of confidence voters will see through the same dirty tricks in 2008 (Fox analysts wishing for your assassination, etc.).  But it puts Democrats and indeed Democratic voters at an interesting crossroads: in 2008 do we react against the old GOP line or act to recreate American politics?

At the risk of offending some of the Clinton backers, this is the debate the presidential candidates have been having.  Overtly.  Hillary has run as the candidate who can survive the Rove smear machine.  She won't show up to the knife-fight with boxing gloves; instead, she promises to beat the GOP at their own game.  In doing so, she acknowledges that she thinks the game hasn't changed.   This is the reactive approach.  It assumes that the electorate will be as easily seduced by the GOP's magical incantations as ever. 

Obama's approach (and a lot of other Dems') is one that depends on a change in the electorate.  It assumes that voters have finally seen through the GOP's empty rhetoric.  If that's so, we have a rare opening, a moment when a major change in direction is possible.  It means Americans have seen the incompetence of the GOP and is no longer buying their snake oil.  It gives Dems a blank slate and the opportunity to reinvent politics in a way that aren't in reaction to Bush, Rove, and the GOP.  Democrats, under this scenario, can conceivably re-orient politics for a generation, creating new coaltions and leading with innovative policy that is connected to words. Call this the active approach.

The only way to verify which view is operable is to test it in an election.  So far, voters have shown remarkable interest in something different.  But this isn't an idle test.  In order to get the White House back and hold the House and Senate, we'll either have run on a platform--reaction or action.  The course we choose will define the next several years. 

When I listen to the half-witted natterings on the right this year, I become increasingly disinterested in reaction.  This discredited politics isn't worth reacting to, or even acknowledging.  We can ignore the idiotic prescriptions of tax cuts for the rich, of pre-emptive invasions and international isolation, of privatizing everything and transferring our welath offshore.  It's time for a change in politics and policy. We have the chance to create national healthcare, address the realities of terrorism realistically, put Americans back to work, seriously address global warming, and bring some wealth into the middle class.  We're one good election from putting this decades-old GOP prattle to bed once and for all.  It can't happen too soon.

  • joel dan walls (unverified)
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    Thanks for this very on-the-mark commentary. Indeed, the distinction drawn by Hillary Clinton between herself and every other Democratic hopefulespecially but not just Obama--has been this business about her being ready for a knife fight with the GOP.

    After Dubya made his absurd "appeaser" comments in front of the Israeli parliament recently, and McCain reinforced them, to then hear Barack Obama come out politely but forcefully calling them on this bullshit--WOW! That removed for me any lingering doubt that Obama would take it to the GOP in the general election campaign, as well as any lingering suspicion that somehow Clinton really had a point about being the only qualified fighter.

    I still want to hear the Democrats discrediting the GOP's delusional policy prescriptions, however: talk about precisely where the GOP snake oil is screwed up, AND propose a clear alternative. NO MORE GOP LITE. NO MORE TRIANGULATION.

  • Jake Oken-Berg (unverified)
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    Jeff -- Great post. You articulate what many of us progressives are feeling. After watching the 2002 and 2004 elections, I am still a little bit "gun-shy" about our chances in November. However, the disconnect between conservative rhetoric (e.g. "efficient and limited government") and the reality of their policies, seems to have finally sunk in among many voters across the nation. Was Katrina the tipping point? Or is it consistently high gas prices combined with stagnating wages?

    Whatever the cause, for the first time in a long time I'm cautiously optimistic that Obama and other national leaders can express their progressive policy visions to a receptive electorate -- rather than merely reacting to the empty talking points of the right.

  • James X. (unverified)
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    That was interesting. I'd never clicked over to that site before. I like how they were less combative than many TV pundits ... yet they're bloggers! I also like that the Republican flatly stated that taxes are un-American.

    Wow, though, that lipstick on our debater.

  • TomK (unverified)
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    This election is not about Obama, the man, but on his insistence that we hold a dialog on the great issues we face. Indeed, whether we even can.

    This is a key to the election: perhaps there isn't a majority who agree with Obama on his policies, but there is a great majority that agree with him that elections must be about something more than who is better at Swiftboating his opponent. He's be smart to keep emphasizing this.

  • Ha ha (unverified)
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    [Off-topic comment removed. -editor.]

  • Steve Bucknum (unverified)
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    Good post.

    I see a landslide in our near future.

    Over here in Republican land, people are pretty darn tired of the same old same old. I ran into a friend I have known for about 15 years at the post office. While I'm Vice Chair of the Crook Co. Democrats, he's been Vice Chair of the Crook Co. Republicans. The only thing he could think to throw at me about the coming Presidential election (we both agree Obama is the Democratic Candidate), was that McCain had more experience that Obama, so Obama might make a mistake. He didn't know how to handle it when I threw back that we have heard a lot about McCain's temper, and he was maybe more likely to make a mistake.

    He didn't throw at me ANY of those old tired talking points that you cover in your post. He was visibly just worn out with them, and knew that the last 8 years were a total disaster. He was totally out of come back lines, talking points, or anything to say to me - and he usually talks my ear off. He was a very, very sad man.

    Especially after talking about the local Republicans losing about 250 registered voters and the Democrats picking up a similar number of new voters in the last few weeks of registration prior to the primary - he was very sad.

    Jeff, in your post you say the only way to test things is in an actual vote. Some of the election results here, as I covered previously, point to a crisis for Republicans.

    In Crook County:

    Republicans have a 13% advantage in voter registration. In the Primary, 76% of Democrats voted, 60% of Republicans. In the Primary, around 15% of Repubicans showed a protest vote for McCain and Smith.

    Add that all up, and in this very conservative area, the Primary election shows Democrats erasing the registration advantage of the Republicans by their protest vote, and low voter turn out. (We had some very interesting down ticket races, which would ordinarily boost voter turn out.)

    To sum it up, the Repubicans are shattered and tattered. The Democrats are coming on strong. As always, its up to the Independents to call the general election, but they seem as fed up with things as the Democrats.

    I'm predicting a national landslide for the Democrats, with large coattails.

  • LT (unverified)
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    "When I listen to the half-witted natterings on the right this year, I become increasingly disinterested in reaction. "

    Reaction is less important than verbal judo. Like what Steve said, or my favorite story from the year we defeated Cong. Denny Smith.

    Friend of Mike to Denny supporter: "I'll tell you a strength of character story about Mike, then you can tell me one about Denny, OK?"

    Except there never were any strength of character stories about Denny, a GOP elected official who made Gordon Smith look good in comparison.

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    Jeff, in your post you say the only way to test things is in an actual vote. Some of the election results here, as I covered previously, point to a crisis for Republicans.

    Yeah, I think this is right. It's far more of an issue what's happening in deep red districts than that Obama can draw 75k in cobalt Portland. The three Congressional races we've seen this year point to the same coming emergency. You should keep us apprised of the mood in Crook County, Steve. I think your read is a good one.

  • 3 Congressional Races (unverified)
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    It's a brilliant strategy to run Pro-life, Pro-Gun Democrats in those three Congressional seats. People are sick of government spending on both sides of the isle, that's why Bushie has a lower approval rating and why the Pelosi/Reid Congress has even a lower approval rating that Bushie.

    Crisis for repubs - sure. Just like the past few elections have been a crisis for Dems. As a famous former Dem governor recently said. There is no such thing as a Mandate in politics. I'd add for any party or philosophy.

    Also, I need to ask. In order to be Swiftboated, don't you first need to have served in the Military? I could see McCain being Swiftboated but no Obama.

  • Brian (unverified)
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    No doubt the current incarnation of the G.O.P. is on the fast track to going the way of the Dodo. I say good riddance. Big spending, war-mongering Neocons and pious hypocritical "social conservatives" need to go. However, I don't believe the average American is clamoring for "progressive" policies. I'm not. Let's be honest. Congressional approval ratings aren't a whole lot better than they are for one of the least popular presidential administrations in U.S. history. That's hardly a mandate for the Democratic majority. I also believe that registered Democrats (myself included) are doing more harm than good for the party in this primary. I cast my vote for Clinton, but don't begrudge those who voted for Obama. I'd also give odds that Obama will be the nominee and I'm cool with that. What bothers me is you people crying that Hillary should throw in the towel right now. Your cries for "unity" are code for go lockstep with Obama or else. To me that smacks of "you're either with us or against us" Republican bullshit and it sure as hell doesn't help the party. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but this is by far one of the closest primary races in history and the closest one I can recall. The Florida/Michigan debacle is a huge deal and super delegates are in no way obligated to cast their votes for the candidate with the popular edge. This isn't the general election and Democratic super delegates should not be confused with electoral votes. They can vote as they please and should in accordance with the rules. Hate to break it to you true believers on both sides (primarily Obama backers in Oregon), but neither Democratic candidates possess the messianic qualities you want to see in them. Either represents a change for the better. It's no wonder that a weakening Republican party watches with glee while the Obama and Clinton camps duke it out. If McCain wins in November, take it as factual evidence that the Democratic party is filled with dumbasses, out of touch with the majority.

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    It's a brilliant strategy to run Pro-life, Pro-Gun Democrats in those three Congressional seats.

    For the record, in at least one of those congressional seats that we flipped this year - the Illinois 14th - the Democratic candidate was pro-choice.

    I know, he was my client. Bill Foster was endorsed by Planned Parenthood of Illinois and NARAL Pro-Choice America.

    To be sure, he's a businessman and a scientist that talks a lot about common ground and fiscal responsibility - but he's actually quite progressive. (Endorsed by Sierra Club, SEIU, the LCV, etc.)

    The fact that a progressive like Foster could win a a rock-ribbed Republican seat like the 14th (the only one in the nation to have had two GOP Speakers of the House), well, it bodes well for us.

    Full disclosure: My company hosts Bill Foster's website, but I speak only for myself.

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    I'd never clicked over to that site before. I like how they were less combative than many TV pundits ... yet they're bloggers!

    Yeah, it's a great service. I get the podcasts, which dump automatically into iTunes. It's not all bloggers, either--it's a mixture of smart people. One of the most interesting ones I listened to was Robert Reich. Every week or two David Corn debates Jim Pinkerton, and I find it riveting.

    Wow, though, that lipstick on our debater.

    I love her look. Cracks me up. That's another nice thing about the site--you can see what bloggers look like and listen to them. Nice.

  • Urban Planning Overlord (unverified)
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    I agree with most of the post, but I noted Mr. Alworth's tired demagoguing of the social security issue. You know, the people who brought us the worthless (and erroneous) catchphrase "There is no crisis?"

    Social Security is fundamentally actuarially unsound. If benefits aren't cut or payroll taxes raised it will be unable to meet its obligations within our lifetimes. The honest thing for "progressives" like Mr. Alworth to propose is an increase in payroll taxes - but I suspect that a lot of that Democratic "landslide" would melt away with such honesty.

    For all of Mr. Bush's failings, at least he put a proposal on the table - a proposal designed to appeal to those who think they can do a better job of investing their retirement savings than forced investments in U.S. Treasury Bonds. The basic argument the Democrats put forward in response was "people are too stupid to invest in their own retirement."

  • joel dan walls (unverified)
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    For all of Mr. Bush's failings, at least he put a proposal on the table - a proposal designed to appeal to those who think they can do a better job of investing their retirement savings than forced investments in U.S. Treasury Bonds. The basic argument the Democrats put forward in response was "people are too stupid to invest in their own retirement."

    --Privatization is all about enriching the financial-services industry. --The "too stupid" claim is nonsense. --Few people have the time or knowledge to get involved in careful investment planning. That's why we have things like pension plans managed (and hopefully not MISmanaged)by professionals.

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    I noted Mr. Alworth's tired demagoguing of the social security issue.

    Project much? I didn't personally even mention the words Social Security in the post, which makes your claim that I "demagogued" it pretty far-fetched. The quote I used didn't even refer passingly to the hobby horse you mention (that's for another post), but rather to the American public's interest in seeing SS privatized. Of course, we can easily learn whether they want it privatized or not by consulting polls. And there we see that people uniformly consider it a "bad idea" (56% in the most recent polling, from '05, when Bush ill-advisedly ran that genius plan up the flagpole, in part precipitating the '06 Democratic rebellion).

  • Urban Planning Overlord (unverified)
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    Yes Mr. Alworth, the American public is very much against privatizing social security. I'm just suggesting that as you and other Democrats play that loathing for all it's worth in this election, that perhaps you are just as politically motivated as the Republicans - because unless you are delusional you should know that the Social Security system is unsustainable and that nobody on the Democratic side of the aisle is willing to tell the Social Security Emperor (and all his elderly voting subjects) that he has no clothes.

  • Harry Kershner (unverified)
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    "Obama's approach (and a lot of other Dems') is one that depends on a change in the electorate. It assumes that voters have finally seen through the GOP's empty rhetoric."

    Now all voters have to see through is the Democrats' empty rhetoric, like "change" in foreign policy that means continuing militarism and support for others' militarism in the Middle East, or "change" in continuing support for bloated Pentagon spending, or "change" in continuing support for corporate health insurance, or "change" in support for centralized, corporate nuclear over decentralized solar and conservation, etc.

    It never ceases to amaze me that only when Clinton or McCain mouth their insane musings on such subjects do "progressives" on BO suddenly see that the candidates are unclad.

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    "nobody on the Democratic side of the aisle is willing to tell the Social Security Emperor (and all his elderly voting subjects) that he has no clothes."

    There was ONE guy...we almost nominated him to run against Smith for Senate. Missed our chance, I guess.

  • Miles (unverified)
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    I agree with Jeff's point that we're on the edge of a Democratic surge, if you will. But I don't agree that we are on the verge of a generational realignment. I don't think the Democratic party has yet developed the type of strong IDEAS that are necessary for such a realignment. Instead, we're benefitting from Republican incompetence, which can only get us so far.

    When it comes to policy, Democrats have a lot of good ideas when it comes to the environment and sustainable energy. Outside of that, however, what do we stand for?

    On education, we oppose NCLB. . .what will we replace it with? What is our plan for improving American education?

    On health care, we talk about single payer but no one has a realistic plan to get us there. We have middle-ground approaches, like Wyden's (which I like), but none have yet proven to be viable. We have no plans to contain health care costs, which is what's driving millions into uninsurance.

    On national security, we want to end the war in Iraq, but don't have a strategy for dealing with global terrorism. There is no overarching liberal philosophy when it comes to foreign affairs.

    On the economy, we have no economic strategy for dealing with income inequality, unemployment, or stagnation.

    On taxes, we're against tax cuts for the rich, but we seem to support them for the "middle class", usually defined as those up to $150,000. We never talk, as Novick did, about how important taxes are to the functioning of our modern society, which means we will continue to be vulnerable to mindless calls for tax cuts.

    On crime, we seem comfortable having the highest incarceration rate in the world. We give lip service to "treatment" and "rehabilitation" but have no serious plans to fund it.

    Past realignments (the Great Society, the Reagan Revolution) were preceded by years of intellectual debate that started small and grew into a national movement. I just don't see anything equivalent coming out of the left.

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    Miles--you're soaking in it! Seriously, the small grassroots groups that have ballooned into a movement is the Internet and left blog community. What we're doing is roughly the same as Goldwater. He had direct mail; we have WWW.

    Also note that research indicates that voting patterns solidify after three elections. 2008 will make two. My generation, unfortunately, grew up learning to vote Reagan and then for other Rwpublicans.

    I think we're in for a generational change, ideas or not. Of course, a generation is only about 20 years, and faster media may speed up the cycle. But there's definitely a shift, even if it's more away from one party than toward another.

  • Bridget (unverified)
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    I just had a DNC volunteer at my door, telling me that the DNC only has $5M to spend for the entire campaign, that they need my money and that they gave money to Merkley in the primary. What? Did they really do that? Did they give money to Merkley? How can they only have $5M for the presidential campaign?

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    UPO,

    You're the one demagoguing Social Security. There are huge undistributed middles between the line you are pushing and the one you criticize.

    Actually Democrats are proposing raising payroll taxes, by raising the income to which the apply. Personally I think the cap should ba abolished altogether and the the obscene overcompensation of highest ranking corporate executives by self-dealing corporate boards should at least go to providing for the "actuarial soundness" of the baby boom generation, while they are in their peak earning years. Even if we don't abolish it entirely, the proposals to lift it are definitely increases in payroll taxes.

    But it also is just an ideological tic to insist on payroll taxes in any case. The Social Security trust fund is for practical budget purposes treated as general revenue, and there is no reason why general revenue from income and capital gains taxes should not be put toward securing the Social Security program, insofar as it needs it. Same applies to Medicare.

    It may be the case that saying "there is no problem" is an exaggeration, but the exact character and scope of the problem is open to legitimate debate, and intellectual bullying by you won't change that.

  • Bill Bodden (unverified)
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    It means Americans have seen the incompetence of the GOP and is no longer buying their snake oil. It gives Dems a blank slate and the opportunity to reinvent politics in a way that aren't in reaction to Bush, Rove, and the GOP.

    So far the Dems majority in the House in DC hasn't made much difference. Certainly nothing to brag about. Books have been written outlining cases for impeaching Bush and Cheney, but that Constitutional obligation remains "off the table" proving that Democrats either don't live up to their oaths to defend the Constitution or they recognize they share in the guilt for the war on Iraq.

    As Walter Karp noted the Democrats and the Republicans are the two wings on the corporate bird of prey.

    The only thing he could think to throw at me about the coming Presidential election (we both agree Obama is the Democratic Candidate), was that McCain had more experience that Obama, so Obama might make a mistake.

    McCain certainly has lots more experience reversing positions. If the Democrats can't beat this pathetic creature in November it's time to fold the party. The hope for the Dems is that Obama is showing much more intelligence than Kerry or Gore did. This may be attributable to a lack of experience in Washington that appears to have a corrupting affect on politicians' intelligence. As for McCain's military experience it is worth considering the number of former military people who have gone on to become dictators. Probably something in the military mindset.

  • Tom Civiletti (unverified)
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    Jeff's post makes a good point. It's time for Democrats to stop running from the wrongheaded Republican framing that has dominated public discussion for a long time. We need to realize, though, that the success of conservative sloganeering resulted from the Alice in Wonderland nature of that public discussion. The important division of interests and values in not left-to-right but top-to-bottom. The domination of the media by wealthy corporations, both as owners and as advertisers, and the domination of our electoral system by wealthy contributors guarantees that many vital issues will not be discussed at all, and that the ones discussed will be distorted to protect the interests of the rich and powerful.

    Until the Fourth Estate and our elected officials are no longer agents of elite wealth, our public discussion will remain stifled and misleading. When Democrats are ascendant the masses will suffer a bit less, but real progress will escape us so long as the system is rigged by and for the super-rich.

    I would rather have Obama as president than McCain, but I shall remember that Obama will not become president unless the few people who control a large portion of our national wealth consent to that outcome.

  • Harry Kershner (unverified)
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    Miles said:

    (1.) "On health care, we talk about single payer but no one has a realistic plan to get us there."

    How about Physicians for a National Health Program (sane physicians) or HR 676 (HR 676), sponsored by the less than radical John Conyers? Just divert your gaze from corporatists like Wyden, and you'll find your way.

    (2.) "On national security, we want to end the war in Iraq, but don't have a strategy for dealing with global terrorism."

    As Chomsky often says, if you want to seriously reduce the amount of terrorism in the world, stop committing it.

    (3.) "I just don't see anything equivalent coming out of the left."

    Maybe that's because "the left" doesn't exist in the circles in which you travel.

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    Harry K,

    HR 676 might be a vehicle to get us to a national government funded health system, but I have considerable doubts that it amounts to a "realistic plan to get us there."

    Now, on the point of "realism" there can be a self-fulfilling dimension, as illustrated by Steve Novick's position in the late senatorial primary. But even John Conyers does not seek to push his bill through committee and out to the floor of the House with its present level of co-sponsorship and support. Let's postulate, for the sake of argument, I have no idea if it's true, that there are enough people who say, "I support the idea in principle but it isn't realistic" that if they all acted on their avowed principles Conyers would be able to get it through committee and be willing to bring it to the floor. In the course of that and even more in the Senate it would be subject to a great deal of alteration, in all likelihood.

    Also HR 676 is quite radical in ways that go considerably beyond the Canadian system, as far as I understand it. Not only would it do away with most forms of private health insurance, it also seeks to abolish for-profit healthcare service provision. All corporate provider entities, including physician group practices or incorporated individual practices (I think) would be required to re-organize as not-for-profit corporations, or perhaps be bought out by governments and turned into public entities. In terms of hospitals, this in many respects would be a return to the generality of the system in the 1950s or earlier, where most hospitals were community non-profits or municipal public hospitals or state hospitals.

    But this tack raises the political difficulties of HR 676, because you're not just talking about close to abolishing the private health insurance "industry," but also the private hospital "industry," as well as dramatically shifting the legal status of doctors and their practices.

    Is there a "plan" to win those fights? There is a campaign to mobilize support for them, but I'm in touch with that campaign and I'm afraid I don't see much of a strategy, or discussion of what we would do if we got enough traction to get the legislation further into the legislative process, to the point of having to confront amendment proposals and negotiations over them, say.

    And then there is the case of the last two or three years in California to consider. The California legislature actually passed a state-level single payer system -- Schwarznegger vetoed it, with support from Andy Stern & the national SEIU among others. So let's imagine that some version of single payer gets through the House (despite Blue Dog Democrats -- it's not as if U.S. parties are disciplined European parliamentary parties) and the Senate (where it would take unified Dems deciding to change the rules that allow minority veto of bills). Let's imagine Barack Obama is president. Would he sign such a bill? I don't know, but at present I don't think so. Maybe in the face of a highly active mass movement.

    Canada didn't get there by national legislation, but by piecemeal adoption by the provinces, eventually drawing federal subsidies. In recent years the federal support has been cut back and is creating increasing problems. Many of the issues cited misleadingly by opponents in the U.S. about Canadian problems are not intrinsic to a single payer system, but are the result of victories by people like the opponents here in gradually sabotaging the system and throwing it back on more limited provincial resources. but be that as it may, we could expect to have similar problems here.

    Physicians for a National Health Plan have rightly pointed out the failure of state corporate and independent mandate systems with low-to-middle-income subsidies due to unwillingness of state governments to fund them adequately (Oregon Health Plan included) within cyclical fiscal constraints as well as on political grounds. Recent Canadian experience suggests that similar problems could dog a single payer system, absent the development of an active movement prepared to pursue vigilant defense.

    Blame the Dems all you want, plenty are blameworthy, but the movement also has failed to make itself what it needs to be or to articulate, much less execute, a winning strategy. Altogether too much it has been like the initiative campaign in Oregon in 2002 (? I think) in which Mitch Greenlick and other well-meaning people essentially seemed to pin their hopes on the intrinsic good sense of the idea, but did not act strategically as far as I could tell, whether in raising money to publicize and argue, getting "earned media" and doing the media work needed to frame the debates, working with the trade union movement to gain its support -- once the Oregon AFL-CIO opposed it, all chance was gone.

    Conditions have changed significantly since then. Many more unions now understand that they would benefit more from being freed of need to negotiate repeated giveback struggles over insurance and being able to focus on things they can win in current conditions. Many corporations understand that they won't be able to continue to offer meaningful health insurance benefits at levels their workers can afford under the current system -- it is less clear if they are willing to accept putting healthcare access into part of a general social wage, or if they still wish to preserve the ideological commitment to the lie of market superiority in all things.

    So the conditions for this fight are improved, and even the media coverage has changed, not to pro-single payer, but to recognition that the current system is failing and that numbers of proposed market based "solutions" have also failed -- so you can actually get reports on single payer in which the reported doesn't smirk, deride or choke. The fact that the Republicans feel the need to call it socialized medicine, which is isn't, indicates that shift.

    But is there a strategy to take advantage of this? A plan, even in the sense of a campaign plan? Not that I can see, with all due respect to PNHP, to the California Nurses Association, to Marilyn Clement and Healthcare for All, all great people (I was fortunate to have David Himmelstein as my pcp at Cambridge Hospital, a public municipal hospital, in the mid-1990s, he's a great doc as well as a humane human being). I respect them greatly. I'm not doing enough on this myself. I wonder if you are doing better than I am.

    But for better or worse, Miles is right that we don't have a clear, understood and easilty understood practical plan or strategy. HR 676 could be the focus of such a thing, perhaps, but it isn't, not yet, IMO.

  • Harry Kershner (unverified)
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    Chris Lowe:

    Having lived in Canada for five years during years when its system was better funded, I can testify (and have, as a member of Health Care For All - California) that the Canadian system, even under-funded, is superior to ours.

    I also "testified" before Nancy Pelosi with a group of like-minded activists, when she held a "town hall" on medical care that forbad the mention of single payer (We had to scream "Single Payer!" from the audience in order to be heard - Pelosi's answer was, "I was for single payer before any of you.")

    Yes, a mass movement, larger than the movements with which I've been a part, is needed. But it's important to educate the public about the role of Democrat corporatists like Pelosi, Wyden and Blumenauer (and, yes, even the sainted Obamary)in maintaining our current inadequate system.

    And let's be honest about the change that's possible even in a country as committed to "market forces" as Taiwan: Taiwan's Single Payer System: A Phenomenal Success!.

    Your pcp Himmelstein has written extensively (with Stephanie Woolhandler) about why the "middle ground" of competition between corporate health care and Medicare-for-all is a disaster for those of us who must pay the social costs for that competition.

    Competition in a publicly funded healthcare system

    Single Payer Resources

    Previous Studies Comparing Health Care in the U.S. Vs. Canada

    The fact that polls have shown a remarkable (considering the propaganda about "socialized medicine") consistency in support for some form of government-funded health care for the past thirty years is one more nail in the coffin of the "we're not ready for anything so drastic" argument. If we don't have contempt for democracy, then we must at least entertain the notion that we've been ready for a long time. It's the corporations and their politician lackies that haven't been ready.

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    Harry,

    You're kicking down an open door talking about these aspects to me in this way. I've been part of the movements too.

    My only concern is about strategy. Just saying HR 676 doesn't answer the question of how to get from here to there. Our movement needs to be self-critical in a constructive way to figure out how to become more effective.

    In addition to the U.S. polls you cite, there is higher satisfaction with the medical systems not only in Canada and France, but in the U.K. (where the medical service is state-owned and run) and in the U.S. V.A. system (likewise state-run), i.e. real "socialized medicine."

    A place where we may come into a bit more conflict is about education and Democrats. You sound as if you want to make educating people about Democratic corporatist limits on single-payer part of a larger project of trying to persuade them away from Democrats or change Democrats (I have inferred primarily the former but tell me if I'm wrong). I on the other hand want to create a political situation where either Democrats who have stuck with the insurance companies out of various motives change, or they get replaced. In other words I am not going to be primarily concerned with their past positions as their current and future ones.

    In some ways my views on this are informed by my involvement with the Labor Party in the 1990s. Within the LP a peculiar situation developed, where the people who wanted to run candidates to win wanted to wait to build the conditions for running successfully, whereas ultraleft parties that really don't believe in "bourgeois democratic" electoralism except as a tool of propaganda and education wanted to run candidates immediately for those propaganda purposes.

    I really want to get to single payer, so I want a strategy that gets there, whether it "exposes Democratic corporatists" or not. If it does, because that's how we get there, fine. If we get there better without making that a key tool, fine. My impression is that you may ultimately want to use the single-payer issue as a tool to get at a larger anti-Democratic, anti-corporatist agenda. But perhaps I'm wrong. You do acknowledge the role of John Conyers who I think you regard as "corporatist" in other areas, from your comments.

  • Harry Kershner (unverified)
    (Show?)

    Chris Lowe: I think that we agree far more than we disagree. But I've been waiting all my adult life for your party to "change", especially with respect to foreign policy and corporatism, and I fail to see how support for it can result in anything other than further reducing the possibility of progress toward the goals that I think we share.

    Your argument of, "Just saying HR 676 doesn't answer the question of how to get from here to there" attacks a strawman. No one is "just saying HR 676".

    Woolhandler, Himmelstein, and McCanne, et al, have put a lot of effort into the dissemination of their arguments, and the problem remains: the corporate Democrats and their enablers, the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

    It's not just a matter of money, as some would have it. I don't believe that Blumenauer or Wyden would become anti-corporatist if they were "paid" more by centrist progressives than by the corporations. It is an ideological matter.

    This is why Ralph Nader keeps running. Washington has increasingly become corporate-occupied territory, and the institutions that Ralph helped to build are no longer viable. Peter Camejo's point (Which Side Are You On?), with which I agree, is that the Democrat Party is "the instrument that controls, channels and co-opts the forces that otherwise could challenge the rule of concentrated money." While Kucinich keeps progressives in the fold by promising to create a progressive party agenda, only to eventually betray them once the general election cycle begins, the party "leadership" viciously attacks and obstructs the electoral arm of a progressive movement.

    I am not "ultra-left". I am a centrist progressive. I believe that electoral politics has value. I also believe that we must try to build movements and alternative institutions. (We can walk and chew gum at the same time.) However, the educating of Republicans and Democrats with respect to how their parties betray their own interests is part of the work that progressives must do.

  • (Show?)

    Harry,

    My reference to the "ultra-left" was to sectarian micro-parties, usually of Trotskyist heritage. It wasn't to characterize you that way. What is more at stake for me in the analogy that I was drawing would be this: are we fighting for single-payer because we want to achieve that, as the first goal, or because we expect to fail but think that doing so may be valuable in "educating" people about Republican and Democratic betrayals?

    Personally I want to make getting to single-payer my first goal on that issue. It is my belief that to do that will require dealing with Democrats (and perhaps even the odd Republican) not as members of categories but in terms of their actual positions. The Democratic Party does not have to function as a perfect vehicle for popular or working class interests to achieve that goal. It might well be that the struggle for single payer will have a positive effect on the balance of forces within the DP.

    Now, it seems to me that poses an issue to people who think as you appear to do, and as Peter Camejo does. It goes something like this: is it better to have a more progressive balance of forces within the DP, which you regard as inherently corrupt and irredeemable, or not? Wouldn't it merely foster the false consciousness and illusion you posit among us uneducated types? On answer to this is defeatism in the literal sense -- that it is better for the larger cause to be defeated on the specific issue (single payer in this case) in order to expose the irremediable corruption. I cannot tell from what you have wrtitten whether that would be your view or not; how much you put the "education" of the ignorant and deluded above achievement of the specific goal.

    There is of course another way to look at that dynamic, which would be that achieving the goal (single-payer in this instance) and shifting the balance of forces in the DP in a better direction would strengthen the power of the progressive movement as a whole and change the terms of discusssion across the lines of inside, outside or straddling the DP. Possibly that is your position, I am not sure.

    I'm sorry, but you did literally say HR 676 in answer to the original question of how single payer could be achieved. And your final line embodies the same question writ larger. Apart from its condescension and the general objectionability of false consciousness arguments of that type, and the rather arrogant presumption that people are not just making the best choices they see available among those on offer, but actually see those choices as fully embodying their interests and need to be educated out of such illusions, you do not address the question of what you think those so "educated" should do.

  • Harry Kershner (unverified)
    (Show?)

    Chris Lowe asked, "...are we fighting for single-payer because we want to achieve that, as the first goal, or because we expect to fail but think that doing so may be valuable in "educating" people about Republican and Democratic betrayals?"

    We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can fight for single-payer as a goal, and we can educate about the corporatism and hegemony that lies at the heart of the DP soul (and which obstructs our single-payer goal- rhyme unintended).

    I have no interest in destroying your party merely to have done the work of Shiva. The primary reason that we don't have single-payer is Peter Camejo's point: the forces that otherwise could challenge the rule of concentrated money are being co-opted by the DP.

    "...shifting the balance of forces in the DP in a better direction" is clearly a goal of yours that I do not share. I once did share that goal, but I have been disabused by history of the notion that the DP can be a positive institution. Whether or not it is "irredeemable" seems to me to be a religious question, but it is undoubtedly corrupt.

    Re: "Wouldn't it merely foster the false consciousness and illusion you posit among us uneducated types" (to have a more progressive balance of forces within the DP)?

    I would welcome a progressive DP. I would also welcome the tooth fairy. As for you "uneducated types", I agree with Chomsky when he says that it takes a really good education to buy into the obvious lies that Democrats and Republicans keep shoveling at us:

    "...there are very serious illusions that there are major efforts to instill. And I don't think they are very hard to dismantle. Almost anything we understand about international affairs is on the level that my 10-year old grandson can figure out, if given a chance. So just give people a chance to figure it out for themselves. Everything we are talking about, for example, is completely obvious. You would see it unless you are deeply indoctrinated not to see it. Okay, just get people to question sensibly, be reasonable, and think through the obvious and so on...

    But for elites, they have to believe. They are the ones who are the managers and the directors, whether it's political or economic, or doctrinal managers in universities and media and so on. They got to believe. Otherwise they can't do the job. So they have to be profoundly indoctrinated. Furthermore, it is in their interest to be indoctrinated, they are the ones who gain from these activities." On War and Activism

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