Brown Is The New Black
Oregon has a rich history of racism, starting with statehood, where the voters chose not to allow slavery and not to allow black people either. And with each successive round of immigration (leaving aside that African-Americans didn't exactly voluntarily emigrate), Oregonians have loudly protested that "those" people don't belong here, and they're ruining everything.
There has been more and more anti-immigrant sentiment lately. And by anti-immigrant, I mean anti-Mexican. I'm sick of it. It's time to call this what it is: racism.
Bless the Blue Book for including quotes like this, from 1885, "it is apparent that the Chinese are a curse and a blight to this country, not only financially, but socially and morally." (p.347)
And then there's Jim Ludwick, 2006, who writes in last Saturday's McMinnville News Register, "The fact is that current immigration policies that allow in 2 to 3 million legal and illegal immigrants per year are overwhelming our public schools, our public health systems, the criminal justice system (about 30 percent of the inmates in federal prison are noncitizens), the livability of our communities and eventually our natural environment." The language is a tad toned down, but the intent and meaning are the same.
Mr. Ludwick also recently sent a letter to the Secretary of State's office, protesting the provision of the Spanish-language "How to Start a Business in Oregon" guide at the Mexican Carousel of Information events. Given that he believes most immigrants are "poorly educated and unskilled," (from the same article as above), I guess he has low entrepreneurial expectations. (Self-promotion: click here for my take on Madeleine Albright's rather different expectations for immigrants).
Mr. Ludwick is the founder and President of the artfully named Oregonians for Immigration Reform, which is holding a Capitol Steps rally at noon on Friday. With Rep. Linda Flores, who must make an extra-effort to overcome the ill effects of her Hispanic surname. And KPAM's darling, little Lars herself, Victoria Taft. Word is Mannix and Saxton will be there too, each hoping to appear hateful enough to snatch up votes with vitriol.
Ms. Taft has collected letters from the four people who listen to her radio show, demanding that state services require applicants to show proof of citizenship. (More self-promotion, tongue-in-cheek this time: what would Jesus do?) Of course, it is already required by law that you be a citizen to be eligible for state services.
The immigrant bashers would prohibit people from access to information (like how to start a business), to education (punishing the child for the sins of the father), to drivers licenses (because they prefer unsafe roads), and to all of the resources that can assist people in becoming productive members of society, preventing exploitation, and improving our communities.
Immigration isn't an easy issue, and it won't be solved by soundbites, by building a fence between here and there, or by making information accessible only to a (white) elite. Especially when much of Oregon's agricultural economy depends on immigrant labor. The Statesman Journal and the Oregonian aptly note this in their editorials.
And let's be clear. The immigrant bashers are not bashing Russians or Vietnamese or any other large community of immigrants in Oregon. Nope, they've focused their bile on Mexicans. I wonder why.
|
March 21, 2006 |
Anne Martens | Comments (166 so far)
| Share on Facebook |
Sponsored Advertising
Comments
Posted by: Pat Ryan | Mar 21, 2006 3:10:21 PM
OK Anne, I'm game.
Ms. Taft has collected letters from the four people who listen to her radio show, demanding that state services require applicants to show proof of citizenship.....Of course, it is already required by law that you be a citizen to be eligible for state services.
Help me out here. Is there any effort being made by any state agency to enforce the above Of Course?
The immigrant bashers would prohibit people from access.....to drivers licenses (because they prefer unsafe roads)........
Actually, "They" and I suspect that people are being issued motor-voter sign ups without verification of eligibility. (Of course as a Democrat I should just shut up about this inconvenient little detail........as "We" will probably benefit.)
......Especially when much of Oregon's agricultural economy depends on immigrant labor. Actually, the nursery owners, and strawberry field owners, and the rest of the Farm Bureau crowd are all atwitter at the thought that consumers might wind up paying a tiny bit more of their average annual food budget (say a couple of percentage points) for crops harvested by people receiving a living wage.
I have some extensive experience picking fruit and vegetables in my youth, so I don't want to hear the old chestnut about Americans won't do the work.
And let's be clear. The immigrant bashers are not bashing Russians or Vietnamese or any other large community of immigrants in Oregon. Nope, they've focused their bile on Mexicans. I wonder why.
I'm calling strawman here. The reason that Mexicans are the targets is that they have around two million illegals entering annually. The Russians and Vietnamese and whatevers, are small potatoes by comparison, and I suspect that you're just using the last paragraph as a rhetorical flourish.
**********
Is there a lot of demagoguery occurring? Yes, on both sides.
Posted by: John Smith | Mar 21, 2006 3:14:42 PM
So why are closed border people racist and open border people all embrasing and loving?
Some of the best racist types I know of are other than white.
I also love so see America women supporting open borders with Mexico. This is because the Mexican nation is so anti woman, anti abortion, and anti freedom of speech and anti freedom of expression (Unless the expression is to colonize the USA as a part of La Reconquista de la Norte).
Look up the human rights history for Mexico. It is dark and dirty. You just have o love the disinformation people of the world. Open borders is about freedom, freedom to violate the law???? Laughing.
Posted by: Don | Mar 21, 2006 3:40:36 PM
I agree it is really all about racism. If you read the postings on a conservative blog such as danielisright.blogspot.com, although they like to claim they're not being racist, they really only talk about how much they hate Mexicans.
Its a funny dichotomy on the R side, half the party likes illegals because they're cheap labor and the other half is racist and hates them. Hopefully they'll kick the shit out of each other and weaken all their candidates.
Posted by: torridjoe | Mar 21, 2006 3:58:00 PM
Pat--there are a few responses I wanted to give to your post, but in Oregon and particularly Portland, Vietnamese and Russian are at the top of the list of residents from other countries. What proportion of undocumented immigrants they make up in the state is much less clear, but those two countries were not picked out of a hat.
Posted by: Anony | Mar 21, 2006 4:17:23 PM
In my humble opinion, anyone who states illegal immigrants are a drain on services has two rational policy avenues:
1. Wave a magic wand, expel them from Oregon, and start paying $6 for a head of lettuce, or
2. Support a restructuring of the revenue system that includes a sales tax.
Regardless of the fact that many agricultural employers withhold taxes from immigrant workers (...not that it actually winds up at the Department of Revenue), if you want any kind of tax dodgers to pay for public services, sales tax is the way to go. In California, illegal immigrants, drug dealers, Enron executives, my tax-dodging-creative-deduction uncle... everyone pays the sales tax.
So how 'bout it? Magic wand policy or sensible revenue solution?
Posted by: bert | Mar 21, 2006 4:19:58 PM
Framing the discussion in terms of racism is just partially helpful.
The immigration issue gets to the heart of what we want from the American State and how much and whom it should regulate.
There are logical reasons to want to regulate immigration; and there are logical reasons and human rights reasons why immigration should be accepted.
If you think the status quo is OK. I suggest that we should just open the boarders altogether and give all immigrants green cards. The working class should compete on a level playing field with immigrants; and immigrants who come for jobs deserve the same labor rights as people with papers.
Alternatively, if you want enforcement or predictability, then it should be done right, fairly and with a minimum of ambiguity. Enforcement would have to focus mostly on employers who unfortunately have grown accustomed to the US's anything-goes labor relations. Employers who want to sponsor immigrant workers should not only have to document the legality of hires but should also be required to pay some portion of health and education costs associated with immigrant labor.
Posted by: bert | Mar 21, 2006 4:22:10 PM
Framing the discussion in terms of racism is just partially helpful.
The immigration issue gets to the heart of what we want from the American State and how much and whom it should regulate.
There are logical reasons to want to regulate immigration; and there are logical reasons and human rights reasons why immigration should be accepted.
If you think the status quo is OK. I suggest that we should just open the boarders altogether and give all immigrants green cards. The working class should compete on a level playing field with immigrants; and immigrants who come for jobs deserve the same labor rights as people with papers.
Alternatively, if you want enforcement or predictability, then it should be done right, fairly and with a minimum of ambiguity. Enforcement would have to focus mostly on employers who unfortunately have grown accustomed to the US's anything-goes labor relations. Employers who want to sponsor immigrant workers should not only have to document the legality of hires but should also be required to pay some portion of health and education costs associated with immigrant labor.
Posted by: Pat Ryan | Mar 21, 2006 4:50:06 PM
Enforcement would have to focus mostly on employers who unfortunately have grown accustomed to the US's anything-goes labor relations. Employers who want to sponsor immigrant workers should not only have to document the legality of hires but should also be required to pay some portion of health and education costs associated with immigrant labor.
This is precisely my position.
I don't want to build a fence.
I don't want to keep the children from getting a primary or secondary education at the same price as other Oregon residents.
I don't want law enforcement diverted to profiling brown skinned people or chasing them through alleys.
I don't want anyone to be denied healthcare.
I want the state and federal governments to demand that employers hire only legal workers, and enforce that single law.
If you believe that "It's really about Racism", a bald assertion regarding my motivation does not promote meaningful dialogue. I'm sure that you can find some racists out there somewhere, but skip the blanket statements.
Posted by: Betsy Wilson | Mar 21, 2006 5:25:43 PM
Anne -- Do you support any limits on immigration? Or not? Where you do decide to draw the line? And why?
As far as what's likely to happen if we crack down, if our produce prices increase, we could drive farmers out of business and all eat Chilean and Brazilian fruit.
Posted by: Misha | Mar 21, 2006 6:39:05 PM
A funny sidenote:
One of my all-time favorite things I've heard an elected official say comes from our very own Secretary of State Bill Bradbury...
When asked about Betsy Close's virtual obsession with the *epidemic* of illegal immigrants voting in Oregon elections, Bill Bradbury said something like, "We live in a country where we can only get half of the eligible population to vote. I only wish people cared enough about voting that illegal immigrants would risk deportation just to cast a ballot!"
Of course Bill was joking, but his quip was poignant. Why can Betsy Close and her Republican cohorts get away with harping on a "problem" that commonsense tells us is absurd? Race-baiting meant something different 20 years ago in the American South. I guess this is what it means today. Something to think about...
One final thought -- last Spring, I spoke with a group of senior citizens about the President's plan to privatize Social Security. After my presentation, a member of the audience angrily protested that the REAL cause of the Social Security shortfall was *illegal immigrants* claiming benefits. How did he know this? Because he had been standing in line at the Social Security office the week before and he heard people around him speaking in -- gasp -- SPANISH! Enough said... the rest of the audience was convinced!
So I politely reminded everyone that many American citizens, people who have worked hard and have earned Social Security, also speak Spanish. (I didn't bother to mention that many illegal immigrants work with fake Social Security numbers and wind up paying in to the system but never collect a dime.)
Race-baiting is alive and well indeed.
Posted by: Jeanne Reid | Mar 21, 2006 6:52:37 PM
Anne,
Here we go with the "RACE CARD" again........It's not about color, it's not about JUST MEXICANS, it's about ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Illegal means Illegal! People who have crossed our borders without permisson are nothing more than law breaking criminals. I live here in NC and I have seen so many US citizens lose their jobs to outsourcing. They have lost not only their jobs, in some cases their HOMES. Then the jobs left, like construction work, are taken by ILLEGALS! The county I live in has the highest unemployment rate in the state and the number of home foreclosures is at a record high. Every construction site you see has a couple American citizens and HERDS of illegals working there. American citizens deserve these jobs that LAW BREAKING ILLEGALS are taking! The employers of these illegals are no better, they are law breakers, too! If your job was given to an illegal alien and you could not find another job, lost your home, and your dignity, you might feel differently. Not only do the illegals cost us our jobs, we are footing the bill for the FREE services provided to them like healthcare, welfare, anchor babies, schooling, etc., it goes on and on! There are over 3,000 families right here in my small county who are waiting in line for apartments for low wage or no wage families. These are not bums who won't work, these are people who lost their jobs to China or illegals! We have people living under the bridges here, also. Maybe when the illegals start taking food out of your family's mouths, then you will get it, why Americans are so fed up with this INVASION! I honestly don't give a damn if you are white, brown, black, or green, if you broke our laws and you are sucking our system dry(welfare, food stamps, WIC, healthcare), then you are a criminal, plain and simple. Give up the race issue, Anne. People are not gonna buy that one this time!
Posted by: Karl | Mar 21, 2006 6:59:14 PM
Anne, saying it's all about racism is not fair. A case could be made that the people who want the underpaid illegals to come in and do the "dirty and hard work that we (white) Americans won't do" are the real racists. I don't think making that case helps either.
Agricultural workers are not making much more now than when I was doing it 30 years ago. Those were great short time jobs for young people and those who just loved to follow the crops. It's not just the farmers being greedy. We've got NAFTA and GAT to thank for putting the pinch on the farmers to pay less and less. Rising energy and transportation costs might help to solve some of that problem, but we need to protect our farmers from unfair competition so we can grow our own food and pay a living wage.
Most people these days are seeing their incomes shrink and are worried about their standard of living. They worry about what kind of standard of living their kids will have. It makes them nervous to see illegal immigrants come in and drive wages and income down more. It may be unreasonable to blame the immigrants, but it is understandable.
Enforcement of immigration laws should be focused on employers. Attempts to stop the inflow accross the border have proven fruitless and heartless.
I'm sure there is some racism involved (isn't there always), but that's not what it's all about.
Posted by: Jeanne Reid | Mar 21, 2006 7:12:43 PM
Anne,
Do you know what "La Raza" means? It stands for "The Race". You wanna see some racism? Go here and see RACISM:
http://www.wehategringos.com/index2.shtml
Make sure you have your speakers turned up so you can hear the Mexicans cussing the Jews, the white man, and anyone else who is not of "The RACE"! Just watch the intro, they say this is their land and they are taking it back. Watch the intro and see THE RACISM from the poor little ILLEGALS who only want a better life!
Posted by: Lisa | Mar 21, 2006 7:39:31 PM
Anne,
I am a Latina; the color of my skin is white, not BROWN.
The Brown definition when referring to a person of Hispanic
origin, is something which the Chicanos/La Raza made up
in order to separate themselves (DESEGRATE) from the white
population, you don’t have to believe me, just check your books.
See, white people are not the only racist, we Hispanics are as
much, if not, more racist.
But, the point you people miss is the most important one of all,
the “anti-illegal” groups are not against only Hispanic-illegals,
we are against any person, regardless of race or national origin,
who entered this country ILLEGALLY.
Don’t you dare believe that all of us Hispanics, who followed
the law and came to this GREAT country legally, will follow
the “pro-illegal” crowd.
The Racist card is getting old, you guys need a new one.
Posted by: Brown | Mar 21, 2006 8:27:02 PM
Yup, you sure are right, Lisa. Gotta make sure you slam the screendoor on the way in.
Posted by: Jenni Simonis | Mar 21, 2006 8:28:47 PM
As someone who got state services, I can assure you that I had to give documents that proved I was a citizen, including copies of the SS cards for myself, my husband, and our daughter.
During the few weeks it takes to process everything, this information is supposed to be verified. As far as I know, it is verified, although I couldn't assure you that happened every single time.
I do grow tired of all the attitudes we have towards people who come into the country illegally. Yes, they broke the law. But the only thing different between them and our ancestors is that they were unlucky enough to be born after those laws were passed here in the U.S. Had the laws been here earlier, many of us wouldn't be here either.
I think we really have to completely re-do our policies, actions, etc. in regards to immigration.
We've made it way too difficult for people from poor countries to become a citizen. The process is so long and convoluted (as well as expensive).
There should be an program to naturalize all illegals currently in the country. There's no way we're ever going to be able to deal with all those currently here. Why not allow those hard working, honest people become citizens?
Those who have been causing problems in our country would serve their time and then be deported. And I'm not talking about those with minor drug charges or the like. I'm talking about assaults, repetitive crimes, attempted murder, rape, major drug dealing, etc.
The majority of those coming here are honest, hard working people who just want to live in a country where they have certain rights, aren't persecuted, etc. Is that so much to ask? Wouldn't we want the same?
By making these people citizens, they're now protected by all the laws we have, including those covering workers. That means they would have to be paid at least minimum wage-- which is something many employers of illegals do not do.
They also now have to full pay into the system. While a good number use fake SS numbers, which means they pay SS, Medicare, and income tax, many are paid under the table.
Many of these people also have family members who they are sending the bulk of their money to each month. If they became citizens, they could move those family members to the U.S. This means they would now be spending their money in the community they live in, rather than sending it outside the country.
A good book to read on illegal immigrants is "Deciding to be legal," which is about a Maya community in Houston. It's written by the honors into to sociology teacher that I had at the University of Houston. She followed illegal aliens throughout the process of them coming to the United States, getting a job, sending money back to their families, etc. I'm sure there are other good books out there, but I really liked that one.
I've always thought it was funny how the people who spout off the most about illegal immigrants only talk about those from Mexico, Central America, and South America. However, there is a huge number of illegal aliens coming across the Canadian border from the Middle East and Asia. They'll often come across as a visitor from Canada and never go back.
They are typically well educated and affluent. As such, no one notices them. This is also why they are often not included in the statistics for illegal aliens in the U.S. I wish I could remember the information from the sociology class, as they showed the numbers of non-Hispanic illegals is a lot higher than reported.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Mar 21, 2006 8:44:23 PM
What's hispanic? There are Mexicans, Colombians, Venezuealans, Domininicans, Costa Ricans, Chileans, Cubans, Argentinians, Bolivians ... they are of many colors. Some are whites of european descent. Some are of african descent. Most are indigenous americans. But hispanic? What makes someone hispanic? How many people if asked their nationality say they are Europeans?
Race has never been about skin color. Race is about social status and it is a social construct, not a genetic or linguistic one. Racism is not directed against hispanics.
Don’t you dare believe that all of us Hispanics, who followed
the law and came to this GREAT country legally, will follow
the “pro-illegal” crowd.
Of course not everyone who has an ancestor who spoke spanish is going to be sympathetic to people who are poorer and darker than they are.
The fact is almost all of us have done something illegal in our lives. The idea that there is something special about illegally crossing the border to look for work and a better life that makes it a terrible crime is largely driven by the race of those doing it. That is what makes this an emotional issue.
Not many people are concerned about Canadian illegals, of which there are a fairly large number, since they can't distinguish them from white Americans unless they speak French. The fact is if you scratch the surface of the anti-immigrant crowd you will see the same extreme hostility demonstrated here towards spanish speaking poor people who don't look white. Legal, illegal - that isn't really the issue.
The Bush administration has stopped enforcing the laws against hiring illegal immigrants. The INS is too busy fighting terrorism you know. So while honest employers still go through the charade of confirming employment status, the dishonest ones just wink.
The truth is that illegals largely pay more taxes than they will ever receive in services. But the anti-immigrant crowd will keep repeating that lie because they desperately want to believe it. Its a way of justifying their discomfort without having to admit their racism even to themselves.
The Racist card is getting old, you guys need a new one.
Racists have always said its not about race. Even while they were putting up signs over separate drinking fountains.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Mar 21, 2006 8:46:14 PM
What's hispanic? There are Mexicans, Colombians, Venezuealans, Domininicans, Costa Ricans, Chileans, Cubans, Argentinians, Bolivians ... they are of many colors. Some are whites of european descent. Some are of african descent. Most are indigenous americans. But hispanic? What makes someone hispanic? How many people if asked their nationality say they are Europeans?
Race has never been about skin color. Race is about social status and it is a social construct, not a genetic or linguistic one. Racism is not directed against hispanics.
Don’t you dare believe that all of us Hispanics, who followed
the law and came to this GREAT country legally, will follow
the “pro-illegal” crowd.
Of course not everyone who has an ancestor who spoke spanish is going to be sympathetic to people who are poorer and darker than they are.
The fact is almost all of us have done something illegal in our lives. In that sense we are all illegal. The idea that there is something special about illegally crossing the border to look for work and a better life that makes it a terrible crime is largely driven by the race of those doing it. That is what makes this an emotional issue.
Not many people are concerned about Canadian illegals, of which there are a fairly large number, since they can't distinguish them from white Americans unless they speak French. The fact is if you scratch the surface of the anti-immigrant crowd you will see the same extreme hostility demonstrated here towards spanish speaking poor people who don't look white. Legal, illegal - that isn't really the issue.
The Bush administration has stopped enforcing the laws against hiring illegal immigrants. The INS is too busy fighting terrorism you know. So while honest employers still go through the charade of confirming employment status, the dishonest ones just wink.
The truth is that illegals largely pay more taxes than they will ever receive in services. But the anti-immigrant crowd will keep repeating that lie because they desperately want to believe it. Its a way of justifying their discomfort without having to admit their racism even to themselves.
The Racist card is getting old, you guys need a new one.
Racists have always said its not about race. Even while they were putting up signs over separate drinking fountains.
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 21, 2006 9:29:39 PM
Do all you guilt-ridden, lily-white, do-gooders really believe that you are helping some 'poor, hard-working soul' make a 'better life for their family'? Or do you just want to make sure there's a gardener out there you can afford? What's the matter? Too cheap to pay an American to do the job?
Be the apologists for the 'oppressed' if you must, but try not to make it cost me any more money than it already does, would you please? I'm trying to feed 3 kids, by myself, on $200 a week. If you don't think illegal labor drives down wages for the poor and working class, come swing a hammer for a week or two. One of the jobs that Americans won't do, my achin' behind! I'm 50 years old, worked the fields from Bakersfield to Shasta, swung a hammer for 25 years and I'm here to tell you, ILLEGAL immigration is a MAJOR PROBLEM!
Maybe you've never had to wear anything other than a 3 piece suit to go to work. I was topping onions in Stockton in 1971. I carried picket signs for the United Farm Workers. I once shook Caesar Chavez's hand! What do you ivory tower idiots know about work? NOTHING, that's what you know. Did you know that Caesar Chavez himself would call the INS on an illegal? I didn't think so. He did, on more than one occasion.
Get over the race thing already, that's NOT what this is about, unless you want to believe the REAL racists like MALDEF, La Raza (The Race)and LULAC. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, over 60% of illegal immigrants HAD JOBS when they left their home countries. They came here to get a BETTER job, to make MORE money regardless of who's job they took or who they hurt. Do you think they cared about me when they took MY job? Don't bet on it.
I went to the site www.wehategringos.com and saw with my own eyes the hatred, vitriol and contempt that these 'poor, hard-working, good-hearted people' have for the U.S., and every citizen thereof. If you don't have the 'cojones' to go see for yourself what your inviting into your country, your home and your family don't come crying to me when your kids are FORCED to speak Spanish in schools or to get a job. You morons deserve what you get.
Posted by: Salvador Peralta | Mar 21, 2006 10:49:05 PM
The two main (not-Pat) proponents in this thread for the anti-immigrant crowd are using a site put together by a white supremacist group to demonstrate that this really isn't about race.
Interesting tactic.
Pat, I know this isn't about race for you. So far as I can tell, it's about exploitation. But I sure don't like the company you've got on that side of the field.
Posted by: Victoria Taft | Mar 22, 2006 12:07:56 AM
Anne, I and my four listeners will be at the state capitol with the letters from my four listeners on Friday, March 24 at noon. Will you be there?
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 5:02:46 AM
Sal,
It's not an anti-immigrant crowd, it's an anti-ILLEGAL immigrant crowd. You guys always leave out that word ILLEGAL. I wonder why...
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 5:15:30 AM
Oh and Sal,
Could you provide any proof of your accusation that the people that put together wehateGringos is a White Supremacist group? Any proof at all? I'll be waiting all day to see it.
In the meantime go to the site and watch the film clip! I dare you to watch it! I never HEARD of that site until I came here last night. But it was quite an eye-opener, wouldn't you say?
Posted by: Salvador Peralta | Mar 22, 2006 6:27:29 AM
The web site itself is evidence enough. And no, the concern is not merely illegal immigration, or folks like yourself would not also be smearing MALDEF and other groups as "Anti-American" -- particularly given that their charter is much broader than immigration issue.
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 6:51:39 AM
How, exactly is the website itself evidence of 'White Supremacism'?
To smear someone would be to say things about them that are untrue. Can we agree on that? Let me let Mario Obledo speak for himself.
Mario Obledo was born in Texas in 1932, the son of Mexican parents who had moved to the United States in 1915. From 1983 to 1985, he was the president of the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC). He is also the co-founder of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF), which has become the most influential Hispanic advocacy group in the United States. MALDEF promotes open borders and mass immigration; rights and privileges for illegal aliens equivalent to those afforded to U.S. citizens; free college tuition for illegal immigrants; lowered educational standards for Hispanics; and the right of criminals to vote in American elections. Opposed to allowing the police to enforce immigration law violations, MALDEF charges that Americans who oppose unrestricted immigration are motivated by "racism and xenophobia."
Obledo has articulated his radical racial agenda by stating, "California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn't like it should leave. They should go back to Europe." "Eventually," he adds, "we [Hispanics] will take over all the political institutions of California."
If that doesn't qualify as a racist agenda, what in your opinion would?
Posted by: Salvador Peralta | Mar 22, 2006 6:55:29 AM
It's totally accurate to say that OFIR is an anti-immigrant group, or possibly, an anti-Mexican group, since they are following the consulate around the state and trying to intimidate all participants - legal or not. They are calling for a 70 percent or greater reduction in legal immigration to this country. Also, when Jim posted OFIR to various web directories and links pages, he chose to use the following phrase to describe OFIR "Views immigration as an attack on American sovereignty". You can verify this by doing a Google search on the phrase "Views immigration as an attack on American sovereignty".
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 7:16:53 AM
The subject was MALDEF, Sal. Would you care to address the statements made by the the co-founder of that group?
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 7:27:10 AM
Sal? Sal? Are you there, Sal? Where'd you go, Sal?
I'd really like to hear your views on Mr. Obledo's statements, Sal.
Sal? Hello?????
Posted by: Salvador Peralta | Mar 22, 2006 7:27:52 AM
Actually, I was responding to this statement:
It's not an anti-immigrant crowd, it's an anti-ILLEGAL immigrant crowd. You guys always leave out that word ILLEGAL. I wonder why...
And, again, OFIR also leaves out the word ILLEGAL when they say the following about themselves: "Views immigration as an attack on American sovereignty".
I wonder why...
As for Obledo's quote, the only sources I've found that confirm that quote are found on pages with titles such as "MEXICO IS AMERICA'S REAL ENEMY!!!". Can you provide a link to Obledo's full speech on a reasonably credible site?
Posted by: Salvador Peralta | Mar 22, 2006 7:35:30 AM
And for the record, here's my position on illegal immigration...
I'd like to see a decrease in the number of undocumented workers and a smaller increase in the number of documented workers. I support laws to strengthen penalties and enforcement on coyotes who bring undocumented workers into the state. I support working with the federal government to develop agriculture and industry-friendly documented guest worker programs that protect the rights of workers and farmers in Oregon, and the safety of Oregonians.
Bye for now.
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 7:37:10 AM
Mario Obledo, founding member/former nat'l director of Mexican-American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), former CA Sect'y Health/Welfare on Tom Leykis radio talk show
"We're going to take over all the political institutions in California. In five years the Hispanics are going to be the majority population of this state." Caller: "You also made the statement that California is going to become a Hispanic state and if anyone doesn't like it they should leave - did you say that?" Obledo: "I did. They ought to go back to Europe."
If you'd like to hear the audio from that show, you can find it here:
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 7:42:29 AM
C'mon Sal, don't leave until you hear it for yourself.
You asked for legitimate documentation. I have provided what you requested, for ALL to hear. I'd like to hear your response.
Posted by: Tina | Mar 22, 2006 7:45:16 AM
you lost credibility calling Victoria Taft a racist. i've known her all my life and she's far from being a racist. before you start slinging your libelous arrows you better know who, really know, who you're talking about.
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 8:20:06 AM
Sorry for the incorrect link. I guess my computer skills are a little lacking. Let's see if I can get this right this time.
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 8:21:32 AM
There we go! Click on the link above to hear Mr. Obledo's comments.
Posted by: Jeff Alworth | Mar 22, 2006 9:03:26 AM
I think Pat and Anne are both right: it is racist and it is a legitimate security concern. It's also an issue of social justice, human rights, our economy, globalism, NAFTA -- am I missing anything?
To me, it's the perfect story of demagoguery: no matter what your hobby horse, legit or not, you can make hay with immigration. So racists finally have a socially-acceptable way to punk the Mexicans. Isolationists can try to close the borders. Social justice folk can point out that immigrants are victims, not perps. And economic justice folks can point out that exploitation of immigrants is what supports our economy.
All of the constituencies have different problems they're trying to solve, and so immigration remains hopelessly intractable.
Posted by: Jeanne Reid | Mar 22, 2006 9:03:55 AM
This is not about RACE, people, it's about the laws of this country. ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL, PERIOD! If you broke our laws by sneaking into our country, then you need to be deported, PERIOD. If you choose to come back LEGALLY, then WELCOME! No matter what these reconquista groups say, this is AMERICA, not MEXICO. It's ours and it will stay ours. VIVA LA MIGRA!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Ross Williams | Mar 22, 2006 9:41:58 AM
Did you know that Caesar Chavez himself would call the INS on an illegal? I didn't think so. He did, on more than one occasion.
I doubt it. There weren't many illegals breaking strikes in Delano and by the time the lettuce strikes started Cesar wasn't the guy picking up the phone to call the INS.
I worked for the UFW and we organized protests against the INS for harassing union members. Cesar saw the INS as a tool of the growers. When there was a strike, they loosened up to let more illegals in and to break the strike. So we also organized demonstrations against the INS for failing to enforce the immigration laws and prevent the growers from hiring them as strikebreakers.
But the critical issue was that the growers/employers used people's illegal status to exploit them. And that does have an impact on other workers whether they are trying to organize a union or just negotiating individually for better wages and working conditions.
You will see a lot of employers of illegals trying to increase the penalties for getting caught. It just adds to their power by increasing the workers' fear.
""California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn't like it should leave. They should go back to Europe." "Eventually," he adds, "we [Hispanics] will take over all the political institutions of California."
If that doesn't qualify as a racist agenda, what in your opinion would?"
How is making California "a Hispanic state" racist? How is it more racist than someone saying California is an english-speaking state and anyone who doesn't like it should leave?
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 10:40:30 AM
Caller: "You also made the statement that California is going to become a Hispanic state and if anyone doesn't like it they should leave - did you say that?" Obledo: "I did. They ought to go back to Europe."
Is that not a racist statement? 'Go back to Europe'?
How is it more racist than someone saying California is an english-speaking state and anyone who doesn't like it should leave?
Because California is part of America, not Mexico. California's first Governor was a Mexican who didn't want the territory under the control of Mexico City, either.
When Mexico LOST the war, the territories now affectionately referred to as 'Aztlan', were BOUGHT and PAID FOR, making those territories part of the United States. After 160 years of American investment, American advancement and American progress, are we supposed to just hand it over to the border-jumping hordes that literally have invaded the Southwest? California by itself would comprise the 7th largest economy in the world. Do you think America is going to give that up without a fight? I wouldn't bet on that if I were you, because the people of the United States, the rightful owners of that land, are not going to sit back and take this any longer.
By the way, once the UFW had solidified their hold on the Central Valley, the INS became a very useful tool in the UFW arsenal. I think our disagreement there is in time-frame only.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Mar 22, 2006 11:46:19 AM
By the way, once the UFW had solidified their hold on the Central Valley, the INS became a very useful tool in the UFW arsenal. I think our disagreement there is in time-frame only.
I doubt it. I think its a recognition of the practical realities of the role of the INS. The UFW never made any distinction between union members with papers and those without. The INS did - they harassed union members, papers or not, and they ignored strikebreakers.
Because California is part of America
So what? There is a very large spanish speaking population in California, as there is elsewhere in the United States. Predicting that at some point they will make up the majority of voters has nothing to do with race. The city of Miami is already mostly controlled by hispanics, as far as I can tell its still part of the United States. Boston never became Irish either.
Posted by: JJ Ark | Mar 22, 2006 12:08:20 PM
you lost credibility calling Victoria Taft a racist. i've known her all my life and she's far from being a racist. before you start slinging your libelous arrows you better know who, really know, who you're talking about.
Don't like "racist"? Fine...Howsabout unoriginal, sycophant, and just plain silly?
And now for the rub: I *agree* with Victoria on this one issue...as much as it pains me to fall into her company at *all*. At least in effect if not principle.
Simple truth is that illegal means...well...illegal:
Main Entry: il·le·gal
Pronunciation: il-'lE-g&l
Function: adjective
: contrary to or in violation of a law : ILLICIT, UNLAWFUL —il·le·gal·ly adverb
thats from websters.
Our nation grows stronger by immigration. Its no secret that our nation has been made successful *by* immigration. However, that was (mostly) *legal* immigration.
If you want *another* amnesty, I would be happy to go for it, but i really want to see a companion piece of legislation that effectively shuts down the hiring of illegals, and the importation of illegals, not to mention some way of policing *BOTH* north and south borders.
There is a fiscal impact that seems to come up very rarely in my liberal circles: bilingual education. WE, the taxpayers, are paying for this education. This disproportionally effects the smaller cities and rural areas. I don't believe that we can turn bilingual education off overnight, nor should that be our short-term goal, but at least we can do our best to get folks paying their share into the system to support the education of their children. Paying under the table (wether truly under the table, or the employer pocketing the tax money) means that these folks aren't contributing to the taxpayer pool and that in turn, effects us all.
If we must, then lets use the Amnesty as a stepping stone. Granting amnesty, getting these folks on the *legit* tax rolls, and then stemming the tide of incoming illegals would be a step in the right direction.
Then lets look at making it easier to bring folks into the country, *legally*.
We are a nation of immigrants, and we *need* immigrants to make this nation of ours work, but we need to make sure that we police the borders, allow in as many as we can handle, and assimilate them into our collective American culture as quickly as possible.
Please don't bother calling me a racist...yo hablo espanol, and I conduct daily business in Spanish, and don't particularly care what race or nationality a person is.
Posted by: Guy Pinestra | Mar 22, 2006 12:19:47 PM
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the UFW then.
Because California is part of America.
So what? There is a very large spanish speaking population in California, as there is elsewhere in the United States. Predicting that at some point they will make up the majority of voters has nothing to do with race. The city of Miami is already mostly controlled by hispanics, as far as I can tell its still part of the United States. Boston never became Irish either.
What you say is true. The city of Miami IS mostly controlled by Hispanics, Cuban-American Hispanics to be more precise, who are proud Americans and more patriotic than ANY other ethnic group. I'm not too worried that Miami will try to secede from the Union. Pretty much the same story for Boston. Of course, Cuba and Ireland don't have an 1,800 mile border with us, either. Plus we never defeated them in a war that cost them half of their existing territory.
As for California and the rest of 'Aztlan', Mexico and Mexicans have made it very clear that they still consider this area as part of Mexico. It is Mexico's stated intention to reclaim that land through massive migration, legal or illegal.You don't have to believe me, just Google these...
MALDEF
MEChA
La Raza
Aztlan
Come back and tell me what you learn.
Posted by: The Oregon Conservative | Mar 22, 2006 2:51:37 PM
As possibly the very first of the "four" proud people to sign the Operation ID petitions, (all the way from Springfield, OR), I see that not once did you make a distinction between "illegal" Mexican immigrant and legal. Apparently, it doesn't matter to you that non-citizens are not asked for proof of citizenship or that non-citizens are choosing our legislators. Americans do not aspire to, less much are allowed to, go into other nations and vote for their leaders.
You leave a lot of facts out in your article. That's pretty convenient when you have no facts to support your point of view. But, one fact remained thorughout what you said. You have nothing but contempt for the state of Oregon or for your country. You sound as if you hate your own country (assuming you are a citizen). Victoria has never sounded hateful nor falsely accused anyone. You have.
Posted by: NWW | Mar 22, 2006 3:20:20 PM
Ah, Oregon - the Arkansas on the left coast.
Whites people debating with white people about racism - only in Oregon!
Posted by: torridjoe | Mar 22, 2006 3:31:21 PM
"Apparently, it doesn't matter to you that non-citizens are not asked for proof of citizenship or that non-citizens are choosing our legislators."
Link? What evidence is there of rampant voting by non-citizens? This same canard of an argument for disenfranchisement was tried in Washington in 2004, as part of the ridiculous election contest. Do you know how many non-citizen votes they found, statewide? TWO. And one of them turned himself in the next day, realizing his mistake.
Posted by: Annie Lover | Mar 22, 2006 4:11:03 PM
Annie and I are getting ribs on Friday. Sorry she can't go to your pitiful rally on Friday.
For the Illegal is ILLEGAL crowd. If your father steals from a store while you are with him do you have to face the same punishment? So if my father dragged me across the border ILLEGALLY them I can go to school. I have to swim back to Russian or Veitnam. Not Mexico becasue we aren't racists.
JJ Ark I think you've lost creditability with me because you have been friends with Ms. Taft all her life and didn't realize she was a racist.
Posted by: Pat Ryan | Mar 22, 2006 4:40:48 PM
God I love this crowd!
Don't answer questions on their merits. Just play the Race card, and remember, only Heterosexual Male Members of the American Hegemony can be racist. Everybody else is oppressed (or their great-great-grandma was) and oppressed people cannot by definition be racists.
God I love this crowd!
Oh yeah, and Annie Lover I resent your exclusivity regarding who might love Annie. We all love Annie...Or at least I do.
Posted by: Pat Ryan | Mar 22, 2006 4:43:59 PM
Dang!!! I forgot to include Rght Wing Female Talk Show Hosts in the potential Racist pool, but I think that about covers it.....
Posted by: torridjoe | Mar 22, 2006 4:44:06 PM
You're half-right, Pat. Racism is an expression of power, and if you're being oppressed, you lack that power. Perhaps the term you're looking for is simply prejudice, which indeed knows no color or status.
Note: The presence of any individual above does not imply an endorsement by BlueOregon. The selection of faces shown is done by Facebook. Visit BlueOregon on Facebook.
Post a comment
Posted by: Annie Lover | Mar 21, 2006 2:50:22 PM
How long do you think it will before someone posts talking about the "War on Terror?"
I don't often like Kevin Mannix but when he asked if we should check someone's id when they were bleeding on the street, I didn't hate him as much.
Saxton is a bastard. He would keep children form going to school because of something their parents did and what alot of the business community encourages. He's a Bastard and is I could I'd give him cancer.