Welcome to Saxtonville
Ron Saxton made the front page of DailyKos.com:
Front page blogger McJoan notes that when Saxton claims that illegal immigration "wasn't anything we talked about 10 years ago" he's revising history:
Saxton has a poor memory. Farmers in Oregon, and across the nation, were actually pretty worked up in the early 90s as a result of the passage of the Immigration Reform and Control Act which had passed in 1986. Throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s, compliance with IRCA was a primary issue for farmers. I remember it well because I was working for Congressman Wyden in Oregon at the time, and worked on a number of field hearings on the issue. I also talked to lots and lots of farmers concerned about proving compliance.Responsible farmers were concerned about complying. That's because, under IRCA, employers are guilty of breaking the law only if they knowingly employ illegal immigrants. Ron Saxton seemed not to be among those farmers.
Going further, McJoan points out the substandard housing that Saxton's farm used to house those migrant workers:
Speaking of that migrant camp, the Polk County Assessor's office has well-documented assessments of the property, including photographs. The one you're looking at here is listed as the 1953 "farm building" on the site (to view it on the site, use Internet Explorer). Neighbors verify that this building was used as a migrant camp--this is where his farm workers lived. This is what passes for migrant farm worker housing for Ron Saxton. Do you suppose that qualifies as "compassionate conservatism"?
Head on to the big blog and check it out. Discuss.
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October 13, 2006 |
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Comments
Posted by: torridjoe | Oct 13, 2006 10:18:44 AM
Saxton said himself that "we have a migrant labor camp and everything" on Larson's show. So it was apparently happening since his involvement.
Posted by: LT | Oct 13, 2006 10:25:53 AM
As far as when people started talking about immigration, I just read in a story about population growth in this country,
"In 1915 when the population hit 100 million people, there was a backlash and lawmakers put limits on immigration for the first time".
Maybe Saxton means "no one in my circle was talking about immigration"?
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 10:51:54 AM
Isn't migrant housing inspected by the State of Oregon? One can't tell by the pictures what the accomodations are inside these units. And, aren't these quarters built for TEMPORARY use only? I doubt anyone lived there year 'round. Again, what's the issue?
Posted by: paulie | Oct 13, 2006 10:53:38 AM
Combine the David Sarasonn editorial column in today's Big "O" with McJoan's Daily Kos front page column on Daily Kos; then imagine Ron Saxton spitting out his morning coffee. Last week the editorial in the Medford Mail Tribune knocked Saxton for his untruthful ads. It will be interesting to see how Saxton's campaign staff tries to spin those two major hits. October 17th is the last day to register to vote in Oregon. Remember if Democrats don't vote, Democrats won't win.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 11:09:53 AM
And, aren't these quarters built for TEMPORARY use only? I doubt anyone lived there year 'round.
Where do you think they lived the rest of the year? In some other "temporary" housing perhaps? We may sleep in a tent when we go camping, it doesn't make a tent suitable housing for workers at a business.
Isn't migrant housing inspected by the State of Oregon?
Yes. And laws against hiring illegal immigrants are enforced by the government of the United States. Neither one is likely to go after a prominent, well-connected businessman.
Posted by: Zak J. | Oct 13, 2006 11:29:44 AM
I really hope the Kulongoski team jumps on what is clearly a question of character with Ron Saxton.
He refuses to take positions on difficult issues like TABOR and Iraq (how can ANYONE not have an opinion on Iraq???) He approves campaign ads that tell blatant lies. He tells lies in his interviews. He dodges the law to run for office from a home he doesn't live in. And he apparently doesn't bother complying with labor law regarding to workers he had living in a barn.
Then, after all this, he won't tell us what the evil inefficiencies are that he plans to cut in state government. Instead, he just asks us to trust him.
God help us if this man is elected to lead.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 11:48:19 AM
Where do you think they lived the rest of the year? In some other "temporary" housing perhaps? We may sleep in a tent when we go camping, it doesn't make a tent suitable housing for workers at a business.
I always thought "Migrant Workers" meant they moved on to another state as crops ripen for picking. And, the idea is that non-citizens working on temporary visas should NOT live here year 'round.
You people are nitpicking nits that just don't exist.
Posted by: Joe12Pack | Oct 13, 2006 12:08:23 PM
As I understand it, Saxton WAS part owner in this farming venture and was not involved in the hiring of farm workers. Apparently that was handled by an independent contractor who claims hiring practices were legit.
Were there illegal aliens working on that farm? Most likely, as there are on most agricultural job sites. My guess is Ron didnt give it much thought back then, like most people. Worth noting, but hardly a scandal.
How about our current governor? Does Oregon DMV check SSN's? No. Do they accept Mexican matricular cards as a form of valid ID and issue drivers licenses to foreign nationals? Yep. Are non-citizens receiving taxpayer funded services from the state? You bet. When confronted, Ted comes up with "Hey, I'm not working the counter at DMV". He has also said that Oregon leads the way on the Real ID act, full well knowing that statement could not be farther from the truth. As far as identification goes, Oregon Drivers Licenses become more worthless by the day.
Kulongoski has shown no desire to do his part to repair our broken immigration system. On a state level it has become much worse under his direction. Saxton is the guy talking immigration reform NOW while Kulongoski's record on the matter speaks for itself. I don't care about a small agricultural partnership Ron owned a piece of years ago, nor do I care what crops are grown on that land today. Cherries, grapes, grass seed- who gives a rats ass? Saxton Farmgate? Weak.
Posted by: Aaron V. | Oct 13, 2006 12:37:49 PM
Saxton is the guy talking immigration reform, while being owner of a vineyard that undoubtedly profited from illegal immigration. Message to Saxton: Illegal is illegal. I would expect Saxton to give a proportional share of his profits from the vineyard back, if it can be calculated.
Saxton also games the system with his renting of the apartment to get his kids into Lincoln. Message to Saxton: Unethical is unethical.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 12:51:13 PM
I always thought "Migrant Workers" meant they moved on to another state as crops ripen for picking
... where some other employer provides them with sub-standard housing. I am not sure what the fact that it is temporary housing has to do with anything.
Lets be clear. The solution to criminal employers who exploit foreign born labor is simple. Throw them in jail. If Saxton illegally hired people to work for him, he is a criminal. He belongs in jail. The same way he would if he hired children. Just like Goldschmidt belonged in jail.
Does Oregon DMV check SSN's? No. Do they accept Mexican matricular cards as a form of valid ID and issue drivers licenses to foreign nationals? Yep. Are non-citizens receiving taxpayer funded services from the state? You bet
Is there anything illegal about any of that? No. Is there any reason not to give a drivers license to someone who is qualified to drive? No. Does the DMV have any reason to check social security numbers? No. Is there anything wrong with taxpayers who aren't citizens receiving services? No.
What does any of that have to do with an employer illegally hiring people? Nothing.
Posted by: Ministry of Misinformation | Oct 13, 2006 1:04:53 PM
Bad news, Libbos: Air Amerika just filed for Bankruptcy.
Anybody care to guess how much money El Rushbo makes every minute?
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 1:06:51 PM
The solution to criminal employers who exploit foreign born labor is simple. Throw them in jail. If Saxton illegally hired people to work for him, he is a criminal. He belongs in jail. The same way he would if he hired children. Just like Goldschmidt belonged in jail.
Obviously, then, since no criminal charges have been filed against Saxton, he did not hire illegal workers. Thanks for clearing that up.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 1:11:36 PM
Obviously, then, since no criminal charges have been filed against Saxton, he did not hire illegal workers. Thanks for clearing that up.
Yeh and John Gotti isn't a mobster. "Prove it!" has always been the first refuge of scoundrels.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 1:31:41 PM
[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]
Posted by: Ben | Oct 13, 2006 1:32:41 PM
This is some kind of political gymnasitcs.
Your blue leaders, for years, knowingly gave (and continue to do so) drivers licences to illegal aliens.
Any employer, or public service agency, then has every reason to believe the holder of that licence to be in the State legally because it is illegal to obtain an Oregon driver's licend if you are in the State/country illegally.
Essentialy, the State, under the control of Democrats have been providing fake IDs to illegal aliens, enabling them all sorts of means to remain here illegally.
That's who you are.
That will stop immediately when Saxton is elected.
Kulongoski on the other hand, refuses to use his authority, today, and stop the distribution of these illegal documents.
39 other states require proof of legal status.
Kulongoski is misleading the public with this pretense that he must wait for the Fed real ID act and that he is leading the effort among states to adopt it.
He doesn't need the act or anything but the will to order the DMV to validate legal status.
Why not either promote the wisdom in providing driver's licences to illegal aliens or stop doing it?
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 1:44:06 PM
[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]
it is illegal to obtain an Oregon driver's licend if you are in the State/country illegally.
It is? Where is the statute that says that? What possible purpose is there in not giving someone a drivers license if they are qualified to drive?
has every reason to believe the holder of that licence to be in the State legally
As you point out, it is no reason to think that at all. Its like saying he has a driver's license so he must be qualified to be a doctor. There is simply no connection between a drivers license and legal employment status.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 1:48:31 PM
[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]
Posted by: RodAvlas | Oct 13, 2006 1:51:52 PM
Your blue leaders, for years, knowingly gave (and continue to do so) drivers licences to illegal aliens.
The total number of illegal immigrants in the United States has doubled over the last 5 years under a Republican administration and a Republican congress.
If you want to blame anyone for the influx of illegal immigrants into the United States, the place to begin and end is with the GOP controlled Federal Government that refuses to secure our borders, and that fails to prosecute employers who hire undocumented workers as a vehicle to circumvent our minimum wage laws and to suppress wages in construction and other industries.
I can't begin to comprehend the mental gymnastics necessary to pin this federal issue on Governor Kulongoski, particularly when the man pointing the finger, Ron Saxton, has knowingly profited from hiring undocumented workers, and who continues to lie about the exact nature of the business he is running.
Ron Saxton will do or say anything to get himself elected governor. His own public comments on the subject tell us that he didn't give a rip about this issue until polling told him that he should start caring about it.
Posted by: BobTucker | Oct 13, 2006 1:58:48 PM
I don't remember - which of these tenaments did Saxton use to run for School Board and in which did he live?
Posted by: Bert Lowry | Oct 13, 2006 2:04:17 PM
Joe12Pack:
Do you have any respectable source that shows that illegal immigrants are receiving drivers licenses?
I've heard you guys spout that a lot. But I checked the DMV requirements and they clearly only allow drivers licenses for citizens and LEGAL immigrants.
It seems a lot like the "evidence" that Saddam had WMDs. A lot of right-wing loonies say it and reference each other.
Posted by: prk | Oct 13, 2006 2:05:34 PM
because it is illegal to obtain an Oregon driver's licend if you are in the State/country illegally
umm, no it isn't. you may want it to be illegal, but it is not.
Drivers licenses in this country have never been an acceptible proof of citizenship. As you well know, if you have ever been a W-2 employee, you must provide your company with proof of identity and proof of citizenship (or other eligibility for employment). Your drivers license is acceptible as proof of identity, i.e. you are who you say you are. Your social security card (or work visa, etc.) is proof of citizenship or eligibility for employment.
Same thing when you get a passport. The federal government wants to know your identity, so you show a drivers license, and proof that you are a citizen, so you show your social secuirty card or official birth certificate.
The federal government, until now, has never expected the states to enforce their laws. That's why these long standing policies -- written in a time of more intellectually honest political debate -- are in effect.
So, in your response there is a whole lot of truthiness, but not a lot of truth.
Posted by: Ross WIlliams | Oct 13, 2006 2:06:11 PM
[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 2:15:19 PM
[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 2:15:33 PM
New Requirements for Oregon Licenses
"If Oregon adopts the Real ID Act, one big change for Oregon is clear: All customers seeking to obtain, replace or renew driver licenses, instruction permits and ID cards will need to prove that they are citizens of the United States or are otherwise legally present in the country."
The 2007 legislature will consider this legislation. Let shope they don't adopt it. But it is clear, as of now, there is no requirement that someone have a work visa.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 2:19:12 PM
[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]
Posted by: Kari Chisholm | Oct 13, 2006 2:23:23 PM
Ross & Phil -- Please take your foodfight elsewhere. I'm wiping all these comments as off-topic. I am, however, archiving them in the event of legal action.
Posted by: paulie | Oct 13, 2006 2:26:50 PM
The bottom line is Saxton is just not up to the job of being Governor. He's accepted over a million dollars of outside interest money (money that didn't come from Oregonians) from right wing outside special interest groups. Saxton's political experience is limited to serving on the Portland Public School Board, which many regard as the worst run school district in the state. During his short service he voted for administrative golden parachutes and wasted a half million on buying out the weakest Superintendent and another administrator Saxton happily voted to hire. Add to that, Saxton's appalling display of a Republican personality transplant switching from a moderate Republican to a far right Republican to run for the governor's office.
The LTE writer, Steven Maurer said it best this morning in the Big "O":
"Governor Kulongoski, reformed the Public Employees Retirement system, saving taxpayers $8 billion while perserving a fair pension for public workers. #2. Kulongoski cut 250,000 of red tape from business forms. #3. Kulongoski attracted major employers Yahoo, Lowes, Google, Amy's Kitchen and more.#4. He stopped Republican cuts to abuse prevention programs. #5 Kulongoski blocked the Republican's attempts to cut the minimum wage. #6. He added 120,000 new jobs in his first four years making Oregon the 5th fastest growing economy in the nation."
What was Ron Saxton doing? He was a corporate lawyer employed by a big Texas corporation trying to buy PGE. Add his fake residence in the Lincoln High attendance area so his son could attend Lincoln, add his more than questionable truth telling, his lack of a stance on the Iraq war and his avoidance of giving any specifics on how he's raise money to fund some of his hair-brained ideas like Merit Pay for teachers ( which works in less than 1% of school districts nationwide) and folks we have, as I stated before a man who is simply not up to the job of being Oregon's governor. Remember if Democrats don't vote, Democrats won't win.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 2:27:29 PM
[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]
Posted by: Joe12Pack | Oct 13, 2006 2:28:09 PM
Hey Bert,
You don't need to do much digging to find your answer. Of course Oregon DMV issues drivers to illegals and the governor does not deny that fact. It's policy. They're not going to advertise that on state websites. Not in English, anyway. Educate yourself, my friend. A good place to start would be Mexican Consulate Matricular Cards.
Now, as for the voting thing, that's hard to prove or disprove by design, though highly plausible given our current system.
Posted by: Johnson | Oct 13, 2006 2:40:19 PM
Saxton didn't have an answer for this at the city club debate today either.
It was a refreshing debate - even though I already knew how bad Saxton would be for the state of Oregon going in, seeing the two side by side sure did illustrate that.
He brilliantly displayed how ridiculous of a candidate he is.
The only thing out of his mouth was taxes. Where's the vision for the future of Oregon? Not there because he doesn't have one.
And did anybody else catch the blatant lie Saxton tried to feed the crowd (and the cameras) about Ted's record when it comes to rural Oregon. What an ass.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 2:56:48 PM
[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]
Lets be clear, almost no employers in the country have been charged with illegally hiring workers. It is the policy of the federal government not to enforce the law. If they enforced it aggressively the problem of illegal exploitation of foreign labor by american employers would end. But it is a lot less popular to go after prosperous American businesses, no matter how criminal their actions, than a bunch of poor foreigners you can label "illegal immigrants". Its like blaming children for child labor.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 3:07:09 PM
[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]
I agree that Oregon employers, as should all U.S. employers, should be prosecuted for knowingly illegally hiring undocumented workers. We need to take away the incentive for illegal aliens to come here illegally. Under Kulongoski's administration, illegal aliens have been hired directly or indirectly by the state to work as forest firefighters and tree planters. Saxton has said he will stop this practice.
Posted by: paulie | Oct 13, 2006 3:15:28 PM
Ron Saxton also said he will not and does not support punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants. Ron Saxton, the man without a plan.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 3:20:04 PM
[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]
I agree that Oregon employers, as should all U.S. employers, should be prosecuted for knowingly illegally hiring undocumented workers.
Does Saxton? Is he really going to make sure that no company the state does business with hires illegals. Because if that is his pledge, look out Walmart. And there isn't going to be any beef or poultry on the menu's in state facilities. Nor many fresh vegetables. No more of those wine and cheese receptions for dignataries. In fact, given the widespread use of foreign labor in agriculture, I don't know how he will be able to serve any food at his inaugural.
Posted by: torridjoe | Oct 13, 2006 3:21:42 PM
how could Saxton stop it, if he couldn't even be sure he stopped it on his own farm?
That's the hypocrisy. The rules in place at DMV require a certain set of documents in order to receive a license. If the documents APPEAR in order, what else are they supposed to do but issue the license?
Saxton rails against that system, but when it comes to hiring undocumented workers, he takes refuge in THE VERY SAME PROCESS. You accept the necessary papers, determine if they appear legitimate, and process them.
The major difference is disadvantageous to Saxton: the DMV is under no mandate to make sure of citizenship before issuing a license. An employer, however, IS.
On the migrant quarters--I believe any worker housing must be registered with OHSA. Since Saxton has admitted he has/had a camp on his property, it should be no real trick to produce the housing registration...right?
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 3:32:00 PM
Ron Saxton has stated he will require all state agencies to prove citizenship for its employees. He aslo said he will "enforce the law" in his immigration ad. I haven't heard Kulongoski say anything remotely similar. When pressed for his response to DMV issues, Kulongoski said "Gosh, I don't work at the DMV counter" or something to that effect. That's not much in the way of leadership.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 3:35:33 PM
[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]
Posted by: torridjoe | Oct 13, 2006 3:41:39 PM
Where do you have evidence state employees aren't being asked about their citizenship before hiring? They have to fill out the same federal forms as private companies.
Posted by: Give me a break | Oct 13, 2006 3:43:04 PM
Phil - Ron Saxton is an idiot. Also, did the Governor really say "Gosh?" Way to make him sound silly - in the end it's only you that sounds silly.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 4:00:17 PM
OK, so T.K. didn't say "gosh". But, his response of "I don't issue the licenses; I'm not behind the counter" was quite weak as a reply to the DMV issue. He still sounded silly, IMO.
Is the DMV now demanding birth certificates and cross-checking SSN's with names given? If so, that's a recent development.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 4:01:37 PM
Ron Saxton has stated he will require all state agencies to prove citizenship for its employees.
You mean he says he will follow the federal law?I guess for the crowd he runs with that is a novel and innovative idea. Or is he saying the state will not hire resident aliens?
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 4:13:37 PM
Here's his radio ad:
http://www.votesaxton.com/assets/multimedia/RS-06-R-21_Saxton_Radio_City-smaller.mp3
You can refer to it for his exact quotes. Sounds to me he's saying the State will not hire illegal aliens.
Posted by: puleez! | Oct 13, 2006 4:17:01 PM
So funny how this has become such a big issue out of the blue. The conservative base has it's panties in a bunch over this one, just like gay marriage. When will you people ever wake up and realize you're being used by the GOP? It's a joke.
Saxton doesn't care about anything but making sure he and his rich republican buddies stay wealthy and powerful - you really think he gives a crap about this stuff? Wrong!
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 4:35:50 PM
I think this illegal immigration issue has been building for a long time. Many Oregonians have suffered the negative effects of allowing illegal aliens to work and live here on a permanent basis. The building trades unions have suffered and so have crime victims. It's been said most of the illegal drug supply is coming from Mexico, brought here by illegal aliens.
It's refreshing to hear an Oregon candidate for Governor say he will work to solve these problems.
Posted by: Ross Williams | Oct 13, 2006 4:38:24 PM
Sounds to me he's saying the State will not hire illegal aliens.
What a novel idea, he is running an advertisement saying he won't break the law.
Has the state has ever hired an illegal alien? Maybe, but maybe you would want to see some evidence that he will do something different to prevent it in the future. Otherwise this is just demagoguery.
Posted by: Phil Jones | Oct 13, 2006 4:42:42 PM
If Saxton is elected Governor and does little or nothing to prevent illegal aliens from coming or staying here, then I will not vote for him in the following election.
Kulongoski has only made the illegal alien population higher. He coddles them. I doubt Saxton will.
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Posted by: John Calhoun | Oct 13, 2006 10:13:09 AM
It sure would be nice to know when the last time that "housing" was used by migrants working on the Saxton farm. If it was 1953 then there is no issue. If it was 1993 that is a different story. If it was 2003 I am appalled.