Also irritating to cyclists. Had to leave my bike downtown and opt for a SRO bus. Very slow ride home.

Also irritating to people who want to watch Jeopardy.

A little bit of snow and once again it's everybody else to the rescue because TriMet can not handle it with busses stalled on hills and stuck in traffic, sideways in the rode, crashed into parked cars and switches frozen on Max - and then there are those arrogant bicyclists that want everybody else to pay their way now wanting a ride. No violins playing here for this progressive mess where the alternative transport modes fail when there is too little roadway capacity.

To: A Conservative Democrat

Boy what kind of bitter pills do you take in the morning?

Here's a triumph of gas guzzlers- the bike and tri-met riders get to pay for the rescues of these idiots-

Cheery-voiced GPS units lead drivers into danger

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/12/search_and_rescue_experts_say.html

From what I hear the streetcar was a big epic fail tonight.

My heart bleeds for the yuppies who can't get to their $500k shoeboxes in half-empty steel hulks in sowhat.

Who needs police or schools anyway?

We should have a new law: If you roll a stop sign or red light in the snow or abandon your vehicle in a traffic lane, your license is automatically revoked and you get to re-test for it like a new driver. Part of knowing how to drive is knowing when NOT to drive, even if it means camping at work, or leaving the car at the office and getting a ride with someone more experienced with the local weather.

"But it doesn't snow that often in Portland!" Bullcrap! It snows every year, get used to it or go back where you came from.

Also, conservative democrat: You might want to fact check a bit. Motorists are subsidized by bicyclists, not the other way around. Your car registration doesn't even cover the wear and tear your vehicle generates on the road, much less the cost of expanding the motor vehicle system. Bicycle and pedestrian facilities by comparison tend to cost very little to build and maintain, see http://www.vtpi.org/whoserd.pdf

Well, to add a lighter note to things, I hope everyone made it home safely last night.

Weather events like this happen, my approach is to just deal with it. Sure it's easy to get irritated at this or that, but what problems does that solve?

I listened to one of the local radio shows last night, and there were quite a few people who called in and said they were staying late at work, hoping to go home when the roads cleared. Other people struck off for home and got caught. It happens.

The weather forcasters aren't right 100% of the time, nothing is. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Hopefully it'll warm up enough during the day today that this will all be gone for the commute home tonight.

As for Tri-Met, they listen to the same weather forecasters as the rest of us, so they got caught out too. Ya just have to deal with things as best you can. No one's prescient, and sometimes mother nature throws you a curve ball, which is what happened last night.

A "weather event?" Are you fucking kidding me? 4 inches of snow essentially shuts down an entire metro area. And we're supposed to be afraid of terrorists on planes?

While it's very groovy to talk about being mellow and not getting irritated; how about the diabetic who gets stuck in 5 hours of traffic? The ambulance that can't make it to the hospital? And the more mundane..the parent who can't make it to pick up little Suzie at day care?

These "weather events" have happened fairly regularly, and it's inexcusable the absolute chaos and insanity that ensues in this area.

Would anyone but a Any Rand synchophant begrudge the city of Portland and the counties in the metro area if snow plows were purchased and sat unused for 359 days out of the year?

Why do people purchase life insurance when they're 43 years-old? They might not croak for 3 decades; but it happens. We know that we will all die. And we know that we'll have several more "weather events" in the metro area.

How about making Portland and surrounding areas the region that can actually handle a little snow?

I smile knowing snow is screwing with BO Global Warming Queen Leslie Carlson.

I used to live north of Boston and when it snowed the city turned to private contractors to clear the snow. It was done fairly quickly.

Paul Johnson said: “We should have a new law: If you roll a stop sign or red light in the snow or abandon your vehicle in a traffic lane, your license is automatically revoked and you get to re-test for it like a new driver.”

CD: And every time a bicyclist rolls through a stop or a red light in any kind of weather, the bicycle needs to be seized and scrapped along with the bicyclist banned from riding a bike for a year, and then fined twice the normal violation charge for running a stop sign.

PJ: “Motorists are subsidized by bicyclists, not the other way around. Your car registration doesn't even cover the wear and tear your vehicle generates on the road, much less the cost of expanding the motor vehicle system.”

CD: Typical knee jerk response from an eco-zealot bicyclist. Is Paul trying to be funny or just a lousy comedian? Does Paul live in the real world or just one where he expects money grown on trees from the government to take care of his existence? Whatever the registration fee is for a motor vehicle, something is a lot more than zero and not (yet) paying any registration fee at all. I guess that Paul also forgot bureaucrats have raised motor vehicle fees to pay for bridge replacement and repair, bridges that bicyclists pay nothing for but still use. Maybe all bicyclists ought to be required to swim across those multiple rivers instead of using bridges they don’t help pay for. Again, Paul must of forgot that Motorists pay user fees in the form of gas taxes; and in Oregon motorist paid fuel taxes and weight per mile taxes for truckers fund the vast majority of roadways - where as bicyclists ride on the backs of those motorist fees egocentrically raiding the dollars motorists pay and paying nothing at all themselves in transportation fees. Bicyclists have been called “deadbeats” in other posts. How true it is when they expect other taxpayers to fund the infrastructure, and even the exclusive infrastructure they use when pedaling around on their trivial two-wheeled vehicles.

Just a check to see if "Terry Parker" is in the spam filter, why "A Conservative Democrat" is going by that.

So, we've had, what...15 posts on snow in two years, and not one on population control. Must not be a progressive issue.

CD needs to move back to California, since it's clearly obvious he's done visiting, and exists only to detract from the local culture rather than contribute to it in a positive manner.

On another note, Kari, these photos were delicious! Some videos thrown in. I loved it. Thanks for sharing.

It's not that hard to drive in the snow. Instead of being terrified, go out and practice. A little brain power and a modicum of understanding of physics and you stay out of trouble 99% of the time.

And Paul Johnson, I know you aren't one of those experienced snow drivers with your comments about stop signs. Where most drivers get in trouble is starting and stopping. If you have to make a hill or a rise after that stop sign you'll never get there if you don't get a run at it. You use your eyes (look for cross traffic), brain (don't roll into the intersection if there is cross traffic), and that 5mph roll through the stop sign is usually enough to get you up a small hill.

City and county government could make it better by considering the possibility it might snow in traffic control design. I used to be able to go up Hart rd in Beaverton when there was 4-5" of snow. No problem. You just get going about 30 mph and use your momentum and the traction I had (not in a 4x4/awd vehicle either), and I made it up Cooper Mountain repeatedly. Then the city put a 4 way stop at the bottom of the hill where Hart crossed 155th, and now there is no way you could make it up that hill. When I lived in snowier areas of the country, we didn't assume a stop sign would provide magical protection against another car's momentum and always yielded to a vehicle going up or downhill, regardless of who has the stop sign.

But that appears to be too much to comprehend to the people I saw on the road last night.

Oh and Mr. Johnson, no the car registration doesn't cover the cost of the road. The vast majority of it is funded by the fuel tax-highway trust fund which bicyclists don't pay into; cars and trucks do. You conveniently left that out when you opined. That fuel tax is supposed to build and maintain roads and bridges. However, up to 22% right now is siphoned off to build bike paths and subsidize mass transit which is not self-supporting. forgot about that part too, did ya?

Posted by: KenRay | Dec 30, 2009 4:36:48 PM

It's not that hard to drive in the snow. Instead of being terrified, go out and practice. A little brain power and a modicum of understanding of physics and you stay out of trouble 99% of the time.

Cutting donuts in an empty parking lot is a rite de passage in the midwest. A very good way to get your feet!

Posted by: Jeff Alworth | Dec 30, 2009 10:50:11 AM

And zlowe, you're screwing with none who understand that weather ≠ climate.

The highpoint of this year's respondents has to be the meteorologist that tried to explain why climate change is a myth. Has to be the ultimate "weather, climate, what's the diff" of all time. Probably was a poser. He didn't know squat about astronomy, which one would hope is still required to some extent for meteorologists. Maybe call them atmospherometrists. Most don't know a meteor from a hole in the ground.

And none know when a cut-off high, sitting off the Oregon coast, will move. Just once, back during the heat, I wish ONE of the on-air idiots would have said, "We've got a high sitting over Oregon. We'll keep you updated when it starts to move, but right now we have no idea. It could be 2, 5, 10, 15 days...we just don't know". And how stupid are the public, when its wrong on day 3-12, and, every day, they faithfully tune in to "see when it will end".

"You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows". Could use some real Weathermen , though! How feckless are today's enviros that the Weather Underground hasn't made a comeback? Talk about tailor made to a situation...

Reading the snow posts this evening, I noticed my name was mentioned by somebody obviously covering up their own identity while attempting to allude to the identity of another post. Let me just say, I do agree with the Conservative Democrat as do possibly even a majority of the general public, and have made similar posts exposing bicyclists as freeloaders and deadbeats when it comes to paying transportation taxes. I am now truly honored to have mentored an apparent apprentice that does not view bicyclists through rose colored glasses as many in politics do. Moreover, if anybody is being filtered and denied freedom of speech, it is the motorists and the motoring general public, that as transportation taxpayers, are denied quantitative seats at the table (based on an actual reality check mode split) on transportation related citizen committees – citizen and advisory committees that have become stacked decks to forward the agenda of the special interests and alternative mode users only.

As for the snow here in Portland, obviously Sam and his crew were focusing far too much on subsidizing and attempting to make roads passable for TriMet rather than the motorists who are paying the bills. It came back to bite them in the ass with the amount of fuel consumed and engines idling for hours on end. Just possibly, the hours of long traffic jams are a glimpse of the everyday future in the Portland-Metro area if PBOT and Metro continue their priority emphasis on alternative transport modes and not expanding roadway capacity for motorists.

KenRay

"the fuel tax-highway trust fund" pays for freeways, where bicycles are not generally allowed.

the majority of funds for roads come from sales and property taxes, which bicyclists do pay.

Posted by: Terry Parker | Dec 30, 2009 6:07:07 PM

Reading the snow posts this evening, I noticed my name was mentioned by somebody obviously covering up their own identity while attempting to allude to the identity of another post

What a coinkydink! Not buying.

That or your tired selfish scree.

paul metz, your opinion is not fact.

It is popularly believed that only Federal roads (which is all US highways, not just Interstates) get federal highway trust-fund dollars. It is not true. Federal funds are used to some extent on every foot of public road in the country.

In 1997 when I was in DC as a citizen lobbying Congress on behalf of motorcycles, we were able to insert a clause in ICE-TEA, which became TEA21, which later was SAFETEA-LU. (BTW, for those of you who shut off your brain seeing the words TEA, TEA stands for Transportation Efficiency Act.) This clause stated that a legally licensed mode of transportation, such as motorcycles, could not be excluded from any road that "was built, designed or maintained with federal fuel-tax dollars."

That is every foot of every public road in America. The only roads that weren't subject to this are the very few truly private roads in communities, usually maintained by homeowners associations.

State fuel taxes, which are substantially higher than federal, also get routed back to the counties and cities. How much does bicycling contribute to that state fuel tax?

Anyway, I don't dislike bicyclists. But let's not pretend that their bike paths and city street takeovers are self-sustaining without the fuel tax paid by motor vehicles.

for more information look at Oregon department of Transportation sources link

“the majority of funds for roads come from sales and property taxes, which bicyclists do pay”

Hey Paul; - NEWS FLASH – Oregon does not have a sales tax and Ken Ray is correct.

As for property taxes funding roads; for the most part in Oregon it only occurs in urban renewal districts where tax increment finding, property taxes on increased property values after the district was formed and can be used to pay for capitol projects like building and/or upgrading streets as well as other transportation infrastructure - but only within the boundaries of the district and not for maintenance.

Other sources of revenue often found in budget pie charts for roads is when somebody must dig them up for what ever reason, often a utility. That utility for example, which can be a city bureau, is then responsible for repairing the street.

Moreover, with all the claims of transparency, any reasonable person would expect the wonks of the world to make sure the public is clear on where the dollars come from and where they go. However, the reality of politics today is putting a spin on authenticity by following the old customer sales proverb that treats the public like mushrooms; keeps them in the dark, feeds them crap and then watches them grow to believe in a specific agenda. Knowledge is power, and by keeping the public in the dark without genuine reality checks, politicians can continually snow the people.

If you really want to know who is funding streets and roads, at least in Portland, don’t ask a politician. Call PBOT. I have. The overwhelming majority of the funding comes from motorist paid taxes and fees be it Federal, state or local, with nothing directly coming from bicyclists.

KenRay: I posted evidence that you (and CD) are wrong on the topic, please provide nonempiracal evidence to the contrary.

As for not driving in the snow, I was a professional trucker until fuel prices put me out of business. You just avoid the steep shit if you can't handle it. I stand by my original statement: part of being a good driver is knowing when not to drive.

Hey, Paul Metz...bicycles are allowed on all roadways unless otherwise posted. Save for a few isolated sections of freeway in Portland and Eugene, Oregon's freeways are open to cyclists. Only a few east-coast states ban the practice statewide.

Generally safer than the surface streets thanks to the wide hard shoulders and lack of parking keeps bicycles out of the cardoor zone and well away from faster traffic. Ramp crossings are a snap compared to a suburban Beaverton crossroad...

Part of knowing how to drive is knowing when NOT to drive, even if it means camping at work, or leaving the car at the office and getting a ride with someone more experienced with the local weather...