What to do with double ballot?

Erika Meyer

Email to Multnomah County Elections Division

I got two ballots in the mail. I was going to pick one, fill it out, and send it in. No big deal, right? Then someone told me her friend told her she heard "on the radio" that for people who receive two ballots, only one ballot would be considered valid, and I had to call the elections office to find out which ballot was the valid one. I looked for more information about this via a Google news search, but found nothing.

I called your office, and was told to send either ballot in, but that I should ALSO send in the other, mark it "return to sender -- duplicate." ...Okay, but, is this a hoop I have to jump thru to make my vote count? Or is it simply a courtesy to help you fix your database? When I asked the elections official this question, she did not respond, but transferred me to a phone number that just rang and rang and was never answered.

Please explain! Also I'd like to know how I got a double ballot in the first place. This has never happened to me before, and I did not register twice.

Thanks.

Erika

  • (Show?)

    Erika - my husband has gotten two ballots for the last two elections. We called Multnomah County each time and they have told us on the phone "it's fixed, you won't get another duplicate." And yet a few days ago, what did we get in our mail? Two ballots for him, each with its own voter number.

    This is the first time I've heard that only one ballot may be valid. Yikes. How are we supposed to know which one?

    Can anyone from Multnomah County who is reading this let us know exactly what we are supposed to do?

  • Pedro (unverified)
    (Show?)

    So the double ballot thing sure seems like a dirty trick to me. The elephants have had their sleazier operatives send in phony voter registration cards for a whole buch of known donkeys. The other shoe will drop when they challenge BOTH ballots as the counting process begins. If the elections division counts one of the two ballots, the elephants will scream fraud and sue. Nixon's dirty trick machine lives on!

  • (Show?)

    I don't work in Multnomah County Elections, so I cannot speak to their issue of why voters may be getting more than one ballot sent to the same address (except to say that such things are not supposed to happen). I do work in the Secretary of State's office in Salem and can speak to the general issue of multiple ballots. Assuming that neither ballot is an absentee, both ballots should be exactly the same, so there should be no "right" one. Vote one, mark the other one "duplicate" and return it and you should be good to go.

  • (Show?)

    One more thing. On the ballot envelope just above the signature, is a statement that says something like "I have only voted once." Voting more than once is a class C felony, punishable by up to 5 years in prison and $250,000 fine. We frown on such things.

  • (Show?)

    PS I just found out my husband's business partner also got two ballots. Just how widespread is this problem, I wonder?

  • (Show?)

    I wonder just how big this "problem" (= wasting printing and mailing costs) is, as well. Maybe someone should call on the Secretary of State's office to do an audit. Is this an inherrent inefficiency in the vote-by-mail system, and if so, how large is it?

    McGuire and local elections officials are wrong to make it sound like people need to spend money (stamps) to help elections officials fix the probem.

  • no one in particular (unverified)
    (Show?)

    If you are military or overseas (doesn't sound like you are?) you may have gotten a ballot with Nader on it. If this is the case, according to that link, the second ballot should be a "president only" ballot, which you can ignore if you aren't planning on voting for Nader. If you are voting for Nader, you should put his name on the second "president only" ballot as a write-in, and leave the president section of the first ballot blank.

    I doubt this is the case for you, but I thought I'd relay this information just in case.

  • (Show?)

    McGuire and local elections officials are wrong to make it sound like people need to spend money (stamps) to help elections officials fix the probem.

    Chuck--Last time I checked with the post office, writing "return to sender--duplicate" on the outside of an envelope was free. Or one could avail themselves of one of the many drop sites listed here: http://www.oregonvotes.org/drop.htm

  • (Show?)

    Where's Anne when you need her?

  • Tenskwatawa (unverified)
    (Show?)
    <h1></h1>

    It started in Oregon about 1988, and reports say it's being done in Florida and other states this year, when the GOP pays the postage to send all registered R's an absentee ballot.

    The first time or two, as is easy to imagine, the R. voting response spiked up and many surprise upsets were elected in the sneak. The D. response was to copy the tactic, instead of stopping loophole; and soon all R's and D's were getting absentee ballots, and so then the vote-by-mail movement got its momentum and won.

    Which now, in the end, when everyone has a ballot and a vote, fair and square, has worked against the R's in whittling away their deadwood each biennium. And sent them stalking in and around elections regulations to try to find their next sneak, their next cheat, anything to get some illicit extra for themselves and prevent a straightforward fair election.

    So, I've wondered sometimes if the R's (and the D's) ever stopped buying a round of ballots being stovepiped to their group, and shut down that mailing list.

    Any pattern in the double ballots -- they're everywhere, they're everywhere -- might be seen if some specifics about each occurrence was collated. Here at BlueOregon, say.

    So, all you who know someone who got double ballots? What party affiliation is on their registration card?

    <h1></h1>
  • (Show?)

    I've been getting two ballots in the mail since I got married. Theoretically when you enter a name change and have your OLD NAME on the card and the same address, they're supposed to simply make the change to your present registration. I don't think this happened. Since then, Ilve gotten divorced and had my name changed BACK... I finally rememberd to change my name this cycle (I voted under my married name until now since it was the most recent registration). I haven't gotten my mail yet but I wonder if I will now get three ballots.

    I'll have to call WaCo to find out which one is the right one. And what would happen if I sent in all three for the sake of making sure the right one was counted? lol. Class C Felony? I think I'll call WaCo... too important to make sure I don't screw up.

    My aunt (who was not a very upstanding individual) used to move a lot and she'd go vote at each polling place she was registered. She voted three or four times every election. Talk about doing you civic duty. lol.

    Vote early, Vote often! ;-)

  • (Show?)

    So I got my ballot - singluar. Married name, not maiden name under which I re-registered with a chick standing outside of Powell's. Which begs the question - how many people who registered or entered a change with a random person on the street didn't get their form turned in on time/at all? Nevermind the fact that it's only new registrants that have to be in 21 days out, changes can be made, as far as I know up to election day.

    I can't get too mad at the elections folks, though, if the oversight is, indeed, their fault - I got my new debit cards from my credit union today as well - married name and one for my ex-husband. His name has been off of my account for over a year! LOL.

    Anyway, now instead of making sure my chad is punched all the way through I've got to make sure my bubble is filled in perfectly. And anyone who uses pencil for their ballot is one trusting individual. lol.

  • Betsy (unverified)
    (Show?)

    I also got two ballots. When I went down to vote in the primaries in May, I had to make a special trip down to the election office to get a ballot, and gave them my address at the time.

    A few weeks ago, I got a call from the Democratic Party, telling me that when they'd tried to find me as a registered voter, they couldn't - according to Multnomah County, I needed to have a full and complete address, and I'd left off the 'official' apartment number. (I live on the first floor of a house, so never use the number since mail gets here without it...)

    So I called Multnomah County the next day...the guy found my listing, and appended the record to add that apartment number. He seemed confused as to whether or not I really needed to do it, but he changed the record anyway.

    You guessed it: I got two ballots, one with the number, the other without.

  • val (unverified)
    (Show?)

    We live in Yamhill county and my husband got 3, count 'em, 3 ballots for this election. He called the Yamhill County elections office and they told him that he should just send in one ballot. I think he's planning to send it in early so he can check after a few days to make sure he gets counted correctly. Maybe it's some sort of cosmic balance - last election we each got 2 - one for our current county and one for the one we had moved out of a year and a half prior. We seem destined to end up with 4 ballots per election between the 2 of us. Good thing we are ethical people and only vote once (despite wishing we could cancel out more Bush voters!).

  • Becky (unverified)
    (Show?)

    Sounds like a serious computer glitch to me. I know people are reluctant to have their social security numbers tied to things other than Social Security, but perhaps voter registration ought to be tied to that, which would make duplicates easy to find. I mean, many people have the same name, so how are they supposed to recognize duplicates based on name? And since something like 18% of Americans move each year (not to mention how many change their names by getting married or divorced), a computer glitch like this could pose some very serious problems. But each of us has a unique SS#. How hard can it be to reprogram the system for that? A lot of the people's SS#s would be available from Dept. of Revenue, and surely someone could come up with an efficient way of rounding up the rest of them.

  • Erika (unverified)
    (Show?)

    I still haven't gotten a reply from the elections people, BUT my favorite thing about this was... the week before I got my ballot, I received a couple different glossy publications from the "Yes on 36" people with pictures of happy heterosexual couples and their happy apple-cheeked children and "mother and father" and Gordon Smith and blah blah blah marriage blah blah blah which I found really depressing... until I turned to the back page where my address was printed and saw it had been sent to.....

    Erika & Erika Meyer

    Hey! I'm a same-sex couple!

    Finally! someone to help with childrearing, housework!
    Maybe now I can finally hit a PTA meeting...

  • Leslie Carlson (unverified)
    (Show?)

    My husband is also part of a same-sex couple, according to the Yes on the 36 brochure that he received addressed to "Michael & Michael." But wait--he's married to me too! Does that make him a gay/straight polygamist? I'm not sure the Yes on 36 people would even want his vote, if that's the case.

  • the prof (unverified)
    (Show?)

    This has nothing to do with Republican dirty tricks! Their is no distinction between an absentee and regular ballot in Oregon.

    The likely result is that the mailing system is pritning out two labels for you, these labels and envelopes are produced and mailed automatically. Direct mail companies make this mistake all the time.

    Should election officials do better? Of course they should. But stop pointing fingers until you know how serious the problem is. Multnomah County alone has to process 300,000+ ballots. Assuming a .1% error rate, that means 300 mistakes each election. In a county with high mobility, lots of new residents, and thousands if not tens of thousands of new registrants, that error rate would be very low.

    now you say, is this a problem of vote by mail? no, in fact the vote by mail system assures more accurate registration rolls than other systems, because the post office helps keep things up to date by returning undeliverable voter information (these materials are not forwarded).

    There are disadvantages to vote by mail, but accuracy of the rolls (and in fact accuracy of the vote count) are not two of them. This is well documented, search google for "Voting Technology Project" and you'll see.

  • Erika (unverified)
    (Show?)

    From today's Oregonian looks like either ballot is good, which is the way it should be. And so I guess what I heard before was simply a rumor. Nice to know. Too bad the elections people couldn't have explained that much over the phone or by email, but they're probably busy and underfunded and stuff... and all is cool with Erika & Erika.

  • (Show?)

    Double ballots happen (though rarely), computer glitches, misprints and the like. Remember the difference between anecdotal and empirical evidence? Well, don't jump to too many conclusions based on a few stories. No dirty tricks, and there are safeguards on the back end.

    Not that this helps you now, but this particular problem will go away in 2006 when we consolidate all 36 counties' voter rolls into a single centralized voter registration system.

    To echo (some of) the above: - If you receive more than one ballot, all the ballots you receive will be identical. - Only vote one ballot. - Voting more than once is a class C felony, punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a big fat fine. And yes, people have gone to prison for this in the past. - If the county elections office receives more than one ballot from you, the first one received will count, and then you will be referred for potential prosecution. - Marking "duplicate - return to sender" on additional ballots is the right thing to do, and the mail should deliver it free. - If you don't like the mail, put your ballot in an official county dropbox.

    We've got record voter registration - over 300,000 more people than we had in 2000, there will be record turnout, and the county clerks have hired extra people and are working really hard to make sure that everything goes smoothly. We expect that it will.

connect with blueoregon