Washington Recount: Hand Count On

Paraphrased from Reuters:

The Washington Democrats agreed to pay for another tally of the ballots which had their candidate losing to the Republican contender by 42 votes. The Washington State Democrats delivered a $730,000 check to Washington Secretary of State Sam Reed's office on Friday as payment for the hand recount, the first in the state's history.

"We're going to count every vote in every county, whether it's a Rossi county or a Gregoire county," Paul Berendt, Chair of the Washington State Democrats, told reporters. Republicans said a hand recount would be less accurate than a machine recount and would cause further doubt over the election outcome.

"The Democrats are trying to steal the election," said state Republican party chair Chris Vance.

State officials said they hoped to have a final count by Dec. 23.

  • Tenskwatawa (unverified)
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    It could occur that the recount is way lopsided and definitive, let's say the "42 vote" difference recounted as a "4200 vote" difference, or a "42000 vote" difference. Those results feel like more convincing, not less. If we just had the naysayer Gang O' Psychos's comments today sealed in a time capsule to open and enjoy then. Or enjoy them now, I guess.

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    Two thoughts here. First, obviously, there needs to be a recount. When the election is this close, due process demands that you've tried your absolute best to determine the accurate winner. If Rossi ends up on top, he'll look back at this as a fantastic development. Otherwise, his administration will begin with the taint of illegitimacy--whether deserved or not.

    The second thought came to me today as I read the Oregonian's editorial in favor of the recount. They described the Rossi team's over-the-top claims of "stealing" the election, as if, again, the politics of politics somehow shock them. But more than the absurd rhetoric, I found myself again thinking, "Here we go again, yet another Republican trying to stifle the democratic process." You have to wonder if they understand how bad it looks.

  • Steve (unverified)
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    Sorry, I think you need some arbitrary standard to end this thing reasonably. I mean the PR deal for Gregoire is now that she keeps counting until she wins. Rossi had 2 recounts and won both.

    What if the margin changes to 20 votes for Rossi? We try again? What if it goes to 2000 votes, than the next comment is Rossi fixed the hand count. What if the provisional votes (votes with problems that keep them from being considered legal votes) change things in Gregoire's favor? Is she legitimate?

    Re-visiting this vote over and over is jsut opening a can of worms.

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    Steve, don't be a jerk. It's been explained to you quite clearly once. There is an arbitrary standard. This recount is the last.

    There has been one recount so far not two. That one was a machine recount. Washington law allows for a second recount, that is a hand recount. Washington law does not allow for further recounts.

    There is no doubt in my mind that if the second and final recount shows a Rossi win the Dems will concede. I'm not nearly as confident that the GOP will do the same if the recount leaves Rossi trailing. It will be fun watching you try and spin that if it happens.

  • Steve (unverified)
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    To be honest, I was not trying to be a jerk. However, if that is how you handle disagreements, sobeit.

    My issue is that if a machine recount is not accurate, I can guarantee that a hand recount by multiple people is even less accurate which leaves a taint on everyone involved.

    The sense I get is that if Gregoire loses this hand recount by 100 votes, guess what, another visit to the courts.

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    Steve,

    It isn't disagreement I have a problem with, it's that spin, spin, spin thing.

    Why state that there have already been two recounts when there has been only one? Why pretend that there is the potential for endless recounts when it has already been well documented here that there is a process defined in Washington law that does not, in fact, include endless recounts.

    Unlike you, I don't think the Dems will go to court if the last recount goes against them, but even if they did that would not lead to endless recounts. The courts would rule, the process would still come to an end.

    You may like machine recounts better, but Washington State law doesn't. The solution to that isn't to complain that candidates shouldn't use the remedy that the law provides. The solution to that is to work to change the law to make the process more to your liking.

    Do you honestly believe that Rossi would not have asked for this recount if he had ended the first one 42 votes behind?

  • Byron Smith (unverified)
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    The issue is not whether the law allows a hand recount -- it does. The issue isn't even if Rossi was 42 behind, IF he'd ask for a recount -- He would. The issue is now that if the hand recount makes Gregoire the "winner" by we'll say 22 votes... which recount do we go with?? The machine or hand recount? I truly believe that the machine recount is the most unbiased. Either one who becomes govenor will have a cloud, unless Gregoire simply concedes, but this is politics and she will not. It's really all a sad state of affairs.

  • clackhiker (unverified)
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    KOMO TV news is reporting that Gregoire has defeated Rossi in the hand recount by a total difference of just eight (8) votes. This is without the 700 or so uncounted ballots that are still in legal limbo waiting for a Washington Supreme Court ruling!

    http://www.komotv.com/stories/34500.htm

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    Byron,

    There is no question about "which recount we go with." Some Washington legislature legislated the process for deciding close elections. Washington State law determines which recount decides the election.

    You want to spin into existence some moral imperative for Gregoire to ignore the lawful process. Nice try but there haven't been any turnip trucks through here lately.

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    Yeah, pretty simple actually, Byron.

    First, you do the day-of count.

    Then, you recount by retotaling the summary sheets.

    Then, you run the ballots through the machines again.

    Finally, you examine the ballots by hand.

    The law is plain, clear, and simple. Now, we can argue the metaphysics of which is most fair, but that's a question for the legislature in the normal course of business -- not for the courts in the midst of a recount.

    The law is plain, clear, and simple. Both candidates are entitled to all three recounts.

  • Byron Smith (unverified)
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    You are missing my point. I said there is no question that the recounts are legal. I'm just stating what I believe to be obvious -- Hand counts are made by those biased, opinionated, one-sided, egotistical entities called -- people. Machines are not. They count the cards and do not care whether there's a hanging chad. It equally tosses those votes out whether for Rossi or Gregoire. I'm just saying I disagree with "which count we go with" by law. I disagree with that law. Machine recounts are simply better because a machine is unbiased, and isn't that the fairest method?

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