Who Gets Indicted?
Jeff Alworth
Maybe it's just the crowd I hang out with, but almost every conversation now starts with: "Is there any news, yet?" News of the indictments special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald will hand down related to the Valerie Plame leak scandal, that is. Sure, there's a Supreme Court nominee, a world series, a hurricane--but everyone's talking Rove. So I thought I'd throw it out to you all. Who's going to get indicted and for what? Will Big Time go down? Is this the next Watergate or Whitewater?
Just for the record, I think Karl Rove and Scooter Libby are a lock. I'm going to throw Ari Fleischer into the mix because I like a dark horse. Rove and Libby on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, Fleischer on perjury.
[As a backgrounder for those of you who have heretofore ignored the entire imbroglio, here's a primer on the Plame Leak affair, and here's a scorecard of the key players in the investigation.]
Discuss.
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Oct 26, '05
For a complete collection of the latest PlameGate news, briefings, timelines, statutes and other essential documents, see:
"The Rove/PlameGate Scandal Resource Center."
Oct 26, '05
No offense man, but you (and your friends) really should get a life. I guess if I was a rabid D or R, I might be mildly interested...but not as a precursor of every conversation. I can't fathom that sort of interest in what is merely the latest in a long line of beltway scandals. This is Oregon after all...I could see if we were in DC or something.
Get out and enjoy the fall colors, go to the beach, or watch the World Series...all of which are more interesting than this passing scandal dujour.
:)
Oct 26, '05
Scooter Libby, yes.
Cheney, no.
Rove is the wild card. I'll take a shot to differentiate myself from Jeff and say "no."
Oct 26, '05
But what are the chance for a presidential pardon?
10:48 p.m.
Oct 26, '05
Scooter P wrote: "the latest in a long line of beltway scandals"
Not hardly, pal.
Can you name for me the last time a senior level administration official was accused of a major national security violation felony?
The travel office scandal, the Cisneros "paying off my mistress" scandal, the over-generous book deals... none of this comes ANYWHERE close to putting the life of a covert agent in danger by outing her identify to the press.
Playing games in politics is standard fare, doing it with national security is another kind of thing.
Oct 27, '05
Can I dream?
Folks who think they're above the law and act arrogantly. Thus... Rove, Libby... Cheney will come later.
9:24 a.m.
Oct 27, '05
I actually get why some people would regard this as politics as usual, and interested liberals like me as buzzards circling political carrion. In my own case, there is definitely an element to that--the GOP has spent most of my adult life lecturing me about how liberalism is a disease of the immoral mind while sanctimoniously shredding candidates I think are good people. So yeah, payback for a little of that sanctimony seems richly deserved.
But then there's this, too: we don't know what Fitzgerald will hand down for indictments, but we do know, thanks to his investigation, that the President used the CIA and classified intelligence to enact vengeance on a political foe. That is alone a shocking and disturbing finding. If crimes were committed in the execution of this vengeance, it's a very grave matter indeed--and something different than politics as usual.
Oct 27, '05
"--and something different than politics as usual."
I must dissent. Some consider such behavior by this administration abberant,attypical, nonconformist etc. My perception tells me that exacting retribution in this underhanded fasion is a cornerstone of "politics as usual" in this administration. Compassionate - my ass!
Oct 27, '05
It is not new that R's play national security games. It is new to see a serious investigation. Iran-Contra and the October Surprise scandals were, more or less, swept under the table.
As to pardons, expect a charnel cart full.
Oct 27, '05
I've cranked out one spastic post after another on this and still don't know which way is up or down. Fitzgerald runs a hell of a tight ship. But I do love this kind of thing - if I could figure the legal requirements of making it fly and make the odds useful, I'd gladly open a UK-style betting site on politics and world affairs. I simply love making (and missing) these things. And, yes, scooter P, this is partly a function of pay-back (good on ya, Alworth for copping to it) and WAY too much time thinking about this. Here's mine:
Fitzgerald, in spite of all the time and talk, will snare Libby and only Libby; the rest will be named, unindicted co-conspirators. And I'm thinking Libby'll be pardoned - though after an "decent interval."
And, to answer another question no one asked, I'm secretly hoping for a political massacre...and only partly out of spite. The larger part of my enthusiasm for that comes from a desire just to see what would happen if all the heads rolled.
Oct 27, '05
Scooter: The World Series is over, the beach is too cold this time of year and I walk everywhere so I can see fall colors several times a day!
Frankly, some of us like political intrigue... especially if it involves the Republican Party and the current administration. I say, "It is better than a reality show!" We got real life history right here. Sit back, comment and enjoy.
Oct 28, '05
scooter P speaking the talking-point hypnosis with a straight face :-| keeps us reminded how engrained-in-the-brain the fascist irrational-hate bias is infused, in people's 'thinking,' behaviors, and lives.
From a breadth of history reading I've been doing for months, (Praise the Web and Pass the Communication), an idea I am now mulling is that fascist political thought depends on mass media to exist, (meaning broadcast radio waves technology). Mass media's simultaneity is the only technique that can put so many people's thinking off kilter, out of balance at the same time, and then feed back on itself that saturation of minds, as the proof to justify it. In other words, bigotry is an agreeable oppression because masses of people think of the same target victim(s).
Fascism arises with the advent of mass media and sustains in it, and only diminishes when the 'market' (a very telling name for our citizenry), moves beyond mass media into individual communications.
An example occurred this week (besides scooter P's comment) to show how outlandish the hypnotized thought can go. I expect a dozen indicted names, each on multiple counts, including the vice-prez. I developed this expectation by what I read in the papers on the Web, and a piece in that suggested a list of 'moderate' candidates for V.P. replacement if Cheney resigns, (also 'expected'). And in the midst of the names listed was Bush Sr.
Seemed like a trial balloon full of laughing gas. But I just cannot make war crimes against humanity funny.
<h1></h1>Oct 28, '05
Jeff,
Congratulations. Good Call!
Oct 28, '05
Hey! Don't congratulate him! Jeff loses and I win!
3:10 p.m.
Oct 28, '05
Bill and Paul--
I actually said Libby and Karl. Paul gets a provisional win here. On the other hand, Karl ain't quite off the hook, so I cling to a thin thread.
And Bill, when the email of your comment came back to me on this, it was the first I'd heard of the news (Typepad generates an email every time someone comments). Good job!