Saxton's Bad Ad: Do Something

The battle over Saxton's illegal-immigration ad continues to heat up. Watch it here (WMV).

The Kulongoski campaign is now asking Oregon's television stations to take the misleading and inaccurate ad down -- under FCC regulations against "false, misleading, or deceptive advertising."

You can help, by asking the stations directly to take the ad down.

From the Kulongoski website:

You may have seen our opponent's latest ads relying on the deceptive ploy of scaring Oregonians about the threat of illegal immigrants voting in Oregon elections. This claim is simply false and we are calling on television stations across the state to take the ad down.

We need your help to make sure the stations listen. We are asking you to take a moment to drop them a line or make a phone call to register your opinion on the issue.

Previously on BlueOregon:
KATU on misleading Saxton ad
Saxton manager Felix Schein levels an unfounded charge against the Elections Division
New Ads from Kulongoski, Saxton; but Saxton's misleads

If you call or email, let us know what response you get. Discuss.

Comments

  • William Neuhauser (unverified)
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    This is a good thing to do.

    And write your local paper, as I did to the Oregonian, showing how this sort of lying to get in office is just another example of the Republican party corruption and ineptitude from Iraq, Katrina, Jack Abramoff, Duke Cunningham and Bob Ney to Foley the cover-up.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    I wonder if a non-partisan investigation of the Secretary of State's office would turn up more than 2 illegal votes?

    Also, doesn't the admitted 2 illegal votes qualify Saxton's ad?

  • jonno (unverified)
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    Phil-

    Are you suggesting that the Secretary of State's office is complicit in covering up or enabling voter fraud? Because that's a pretty serious charge, and you better have something to back it up.

    2 illegal votes = 0.00002% of the past 15 years worth of votes (10 million cast). We don't know if those were illegal immigrants or legal residents or permanent residents or what. And we don't know if those illegal votes occurred under Kulongoski's administration.

    That's a pretty weak qualification, don't you think? The bottom line is that Saxton lied in order to create fear and energize anti-immigrant paranoia. That's the story here.

    jonno

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Well, jonno, since there seems to be considerable concern about the actual number of alleged illegal aliens who may be registered to vote in Oregon, it would seem to me a non-partisan investigation would be in order to settle the issue once and for all.

    I have no evidence either way, but since it is a given that hundreds if not thousands of drivers licenses have been issued to illegal aliens in Oregon and since we have motor-voter registration, it is possible there are more than two illegal aliens illegaly registered to vote here.

    Again, a non-partisan investigation would settle this issue.

    Are you afraid of what the outcome might be?

  • Jesse O (unverified)
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    Since you've seen "no evidence either way" don't you think that an ad claiming that non-citizens are using drivers licenses to vote is deceptive? When Saxton's campaign was asked to produce evidence, they had ZIP. Nada. Nothing.

    The only thing we have is over 15 years, two people who were non-citizens who voted (did they do so because they had drivers' licenses? I don't know). And they were prosecuted for doing so.

    The ad must come down.

  • KISS (unverified)
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    Damn hard to prove or disprove. In Oregon all one must do is fill out a little card and mail it to the county clerk. Supposedly you must be Able to read and write. I good friend can fill out the card and who will know? Are you a citizen? Who knows? To think Oregon has no problem is having one's head up their ass...so to speak.

  • jonno (unverified)
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    Phil-

    You admit that you have no evidence to suggest that illegal immigrants are voting in state elections. So why should we waste state time and my tax dollars on a fruitless quest to exonerate a liar? There is no issue to settle once and for all here--only the truth vs. a completely unfounded allegation.

    It's up to Saxton and his lackeys to produce some basis for this accusation. Until then, let's let the grownups go back to governing the state like they're paid to.

    jonno

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    Also, doesn't the admitted 2 illegal votes qualify Saxton's ad?

    Those two votes were not from illegal immigrants. They were from noncitizens here legally. And they were prosecuted.

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    First, I'll focus on the "voting" aspect of the ad...

    "I have no evidence either way...." is your key phrase here, Phil, and that exactly why republicans have been able to target this issue and string along an unsuspecting American public.

    It's easy for them to promote this red herring. Most Americans polled with the blunt question, "Do you think voters should have ID at the polls?" respond positively. And so, Oregonians, met with the seemingly logical progression of "Illegals get DL = Illegals sign up to vote," probably polled real positively in Saxton's focus group.

    Regardless, the facts ARE these: - Studies and investigations have been conducted, and there is NO evidence anywhere in the US to suggest sweeping problems of illegal registrations. Sure, a few instances have occured, but as with any crime, it's prosecuted when discovered, and BTW, it's a felony. - The Saxton ad is clearly a backdoor shot at promoting restictive voter ID while nuzzling up to the immigrant issue. - But the naked truth is this, voter ID rqirements will disenfranchise many 1000's of voters while it pretends to catch the perpetrators of "vote fraud". ID may seem a simple part of life for us in the way we live our lives, but there are many American citizens who, for a variety of reasons, don't drive and don't have access to their birth certificates - the elderly, the poor, the inner city dwellers, the Katrina victims.

    Obtaining a drivers license is a privlege; voting is a right. We should never confuse the 2.

    But as far as that driving privlege: The reality is that we do have a large number of illegal immigrants here, and as long as they're here, I would rather they be licensed and insured. It's unrealistic to assume that if the state disallows them from having a license, they won't drive... and without a DL they have exactly 0% chance of obtaining insurance.

  • paulie (unverified)
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    To the Editor:

    "The broad charges Ron Saxton is leveling against Governor Ted Kulongoski simply aren't true," was published today in the Medford Mail Tribune editorial. The truth is in the past 15 years there have been two non citizens who were caught voting illegally, nothing close to the wild claims of over 100,000 thousand illegal voters. Saxton needs to pull his bigoted TV ad or back up his claims. Other Saxton whoppers are easy to find. The Oregon State budget is up just $131 in real dollars since 1997 while Oregon's population increased 113%. Saxton is quoted in the Hood River News claiming, "Oregon State government has grown 150% in recent years." Show us your evidence Saxton. Another whopper Saxton told to the Hood River paper is "citizens have less police protection than any other state in the nation." Yet, the Justice Department ranks Oregon 14th in the nation in expenditures on public safety. (saxtonwatch.com) Where did you get those figures Saxton? Just last week Gislle Price Williams, Letters Editor of the Oregonian newspaper reported they did not receive any pro-Saxton letters out of 708 letters received for one week. (loadedorygun.com) Maybe that's because Oregon voters are smarter. Oregon voters know, "Saxton made small cost savings in the warehouse for Portland schools while he ran up costs in salaries, severance pay and golden parachutes." (Oregonian, 10/6/06)

    It is Ted Kulongoski who personally negotiated the Amy's Kitchen expansion in Medford. Kulongoski lifted Oregon out of a deep recession to become the 5th fastest growing economy in the nation. Kulonoski stood firm and corrected parts of the PERS retirement system saving thousands of tax dollars despite heavy opposition from the unions. As the Medford Mail Tribune stated today, "Given the opportunity to educate or attack, (Saxton) has chosen to attack to the point of untruthfulness."

    Letter sent to the Medford Mail Tribune.

    Got any other Saxton whoppers with documentation? Share them with BlueOregon readers.

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    Phil wrote, I have no evidence either way

    Phil, I have no evidence "either way" that you don't troll the streets in an ice cream truck picking up little children and hiding them away in a mountain cabin. There are certainly plenty of ice cream trucks around here in the summertime. And we do have a mountain.

    Guess I should run an ad stating that allegation as fact. Whaddya think?

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Kari,

    If I were running for Governor or was the current Secretary of State, I would welcome an investigation that would put to rest any doubts of the efficiency of my office.  Since I would have nothing to hide, I would be more than happy to campaign on the specifics of the investigation.
    
     Again, I have to wonder if the voter registration database has recently (within the past two years) been verified for accuracy with respect to citizen status.  I am totally against having to provide voter identification at the polling booth or, in the case of Oregon, included with our mail-in ballots.  IMO, voter eligibility should be verified in the background months in advance of any election. If there is a discrepancy, it can be sorted out before the election.
    
    I have seen no specifics from the Secretary of State's office alluding to any recent voter registration database audit. Perhaps if Oregon wasn't so overly generous about accepting Matricula Consular cards as ID verification and issuing Drivers Licenses to illegal aliens on a wholesale basis, I wouldn't be so concerned about voter registration. And, I know I'm not alone.
    
  • JHL (unverified)
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    As horrible as that ad is, I don't think it should be taken off the air. To do so would hold political ads to an incredibly high burden of proof. Will us progressives volunteer to take down any ads that suggest that "corporations aren't paying their fair share"? How do we know? Have we seen their tax returns?

    Saxton's ad sucks. But to start using the FCC to take down any political ad that doesn't have documentation behind it would have a very chilling effect on political speech.

    Illegal immigrants get drivers licenses. To connect that to voting is a ridiculous charge, but not completely without basis. Fact -- there are illegal immigrants in Oregon. Fact -- some of them get drivers licenses. Fact -- the voter registration form asks for your drivers license number for verification.

    To assert that this results in thousands of immegals voting is a stupid charge to level... but it's a valid charge. And in the United States, we don't censor political speech simply for being stupid. If we did, we wouldn't hear a peep out of Saxton's campaign at all.

  • Zak J. (unverified)
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    I agree with JHL that the bar for restraining free speech needs to be pretty high. That being said, there's nothing to prevent Kulongoski from calling Saxton out on the carpet as a race-baiting, fear-mongering liar, is there? And Ted could point to Saxton's own ads if anyone asked for proof.

    As for Phil's call for an investigation, public scrutiny of government is a good thing. But before we waste government resources or legistative hours investigating a problem there first has to be evidence of a problem.

    Evidence of wrong-doing is why it's worth looking into a possible cover-up in the current Hastert/Foley scandal, but it's not worth looking further into Area 51, the Loch Ness Monster, or the fantasmal hordes of illegal voters until there's evidence of something more substantial than hysteria.

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    JHL, did you miss the entire point? It IS completely without basis. Saxton claims that illegal aliens are using their DL's to vote. There is NO evidence to substantiate that, even once.

    We don't censor speech for being stupid, but we DO have the responsiblity to censor political speech in ads that is false. And Saxton's claim is false on its face. If he says they are doing so, who are they? Names, please.

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    Blind assertions are the life blood of dirty campaigning. Can Saxton's campaign sink any lower? He needs to pull the bigoted ad or back up his claims with facts. He's starting to remind me of Conrad Burns in Montana and that ain't a compliment.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Perhaps I should rephrase my initial question.

    Has the Oregon Secretary of State's Office EVER audited the voter registration database to verify citizenship, a requirement of voter registration?

    Anyone know?

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    I would be much more convinced of Saxton's sincerity regarding our election process if he was as adamant about assuring that machine counted vote tallys would be verified through a sampling process, a process that would scientifically determine the accuracy of the machine tally or highlight an inconsistancy.

    I would be more comfortable in acknowledging the concerns of individuals obssessed with the possibility of "voter fraud" if these same people were as obsessed about trade-secret software counting our votes.

    I would be more inclined to enter a substanitive discussion about potential voter fraud if they were more willing to acknowledge the real documented problems of nation-wide election irregularites, errors, and fraud that have been well documented historically since the advent of the electronic voting systems.

    KC

  • Jesse O (unverified)
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    Oregon corporations not paying their fair share is one of the best-documented items out there.

    See, for example: OCPP report

    or various rankings putting Oregon's corporate taxes at dead last in the U.S. Or various reports looking at how the tax burden has shifted from corporations to individuals.

    I'm kind of sick and tired of people defending bullshit distortions and rhetoric as some sort of golden wonderful thing because free speech is a good thing. We defend this bullshit, and then we get crap-ass leaders who lied to get into office.

    Sure, the bar should be high. But making it too high has bad consequences too.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    It seems we have gone off-topic, haven't we? I thought this topic was on Saxton's ad being false, misleading or deceptive?

    Without a recent audit of state voter registration roles, how can anyone determine whether Saxton's advertisement meets FCC standards?

  • Bill R. (unverified)
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    Do what the repugs do! Tell them to take it down or you sue.

  • jonno (unverified)
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    Phil just doesn't get it. There is no credibility to Saxton's accusation. There is no evidence that illegal aliens have voted in numbers large or small. There is no evidence that the state's policy of granting DL's to illegal aliens has led to illegal voting. There is no evidence to back up the ad's plain assertion that "illegal aliens have used driver's licenses to vote".

    As other posters have noted, concerns about voter fraud are dubious at best coming from a source like Phil.

    Saxton's corrupt, he's a liar and he's very, very wrong for Oregon. Voters are waking up to this reality, so all Phil's got left is "concern trolling"* this blog calling for a pointless, expensive voter registration investigation that will distract many and lead nowhere.

    Or perhaps he's paid not to get it? I don't have any evidence either way, but hey.

    *That is, falsely claiming to be a supporter of one's opponent for the purpose of sowing doubt, uneasiness and discord among one's opponent's genuine supporters.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Ha, Ha, jonno, I WISH I was paid to raise my concerns here. Alas, I'm just an ordinary citizen with questions. It's safe for you to libel Saxton here since you are anonymous, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make the connection between providing illegal aliens with voter registration cards at DMV and the probability of illegal registration. And, it wouldn't cost mcuh, if anything, to use the State's computers to verify SSN's, names, addresses, etc. This should be done routinely in any case.

    And, I may be the only one here, in this partisan forum raising this question, but I am in good company out there in the real world.

    I find your personal insults to be very illuminating as to your mentality or lack thereof. You know nothing about me or my background, so you should consider how foolish it makes you appear to personally attack someone who is posting here. Try discussing the issues, why don't you?

  • (Show?)

    Phil sed: "it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make the connection between providing illegal aliens with voter registration cards at DMV and the probability of illegal registration."

    Of COURSE it doesn't Phil--otherwise Ron wouldn't have been able to make the connection. :)

    In any case, the connection to probability has already been made, and the result was "near zero." Thanks for playing, come again soon!

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    I suppose the lack of citizenship verification in the Oregon voter registration database isn't such a big deal after all. Saxton's ad clearly says, "The State of Oregon provides illegal aliens with drivers licenses that CAN be used to obtain benefits and even voter registration". Note that it doesn't say HAS been used...

    So, looks like your drive to get Saxton to pull his ad is going nowhere. C Ya.

  • Righty (unverified)
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    This ad is doing some damage to Ted, but he is just drawing more attention to it and is seen as an enemy of free speech. Why doesn't he just threaten to sue for defamation like a junior Republican I know.

    Let's be honest. Discouraging illegal immigration to Oregon through a denial of services is NOT a priority for Ted and company, and this results in millions in extra costs to our health care system, or education system, and our prision system.

  • William Neuhauser (unverified)
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    KATU's response:

    Thank you for taking the time to write. Your message has been forwarded to my attention for response.

    KATU understands that the political process involves assuring access to the voting public through purchases of time on our air. At the same time, we are bound by federal laws as to what - if any - restrictions can be made as far as the spots themselves. As a member of the National Association of Broadcasters, we heed the guidelines as published in "The 16th Edition of Political Broadcast Catechism". An excerpt of which states:

    "Whenever a legally qualified candidate for public office makes a "use" of a station - i.e., the candidate's recognizable voice or likeness appears in a positive manner - the "no censorship" provision of the Communication Act applies. The station is not allowed to censor the candidate's spot or program in any way. Thus, stations cannot alter or remove a spot or program containing a candidate's use for any reason (e.g., the material contains inaccuracies or has used copyrighted material without authorization)."

    Your concerns regarding candidate Ron Saxton's recent ad titled "Immigration Laws" are noted, and will be included in our Public File. Thank you again for taking the time to write.

  • jonno (unverified)
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    Sweet Flying Spaghetti Monster, Phil. Get yer facts straight. You said:

    "Saxton's ad clearly says, "The State of Oregon provides illegal aliens with drivers licenses that CAN be used to obtain benefits and even voter registration". Note that it doesn't say HAS been used..."

    Go listen to the KATU link again (or go straight to the trough). The narrator actually says:

    "...who use them to GET state services and EVEN VOTE..."

    One of these things is not like the other. There's no maybe in the ad, only the clear and plain statement that illegal aliens use driver's licenses to vote. That sounds like the present tense to me, and would mean that Saxton believes that illegal voting is occurring. This also implies, since nobody's actively voting in Oregon at this very moment, that he believes it has occurred in elections in the past and will continue into the foreseeable future.

    I'll withhold the personal attacks, since they'd only be redundant at this point.

  • (Show?)

    Another reply:

    Thank you for writing to KTVL to share your concerns about this advertisement. Federal law prohibits a station from censoring the content of a commercial that was placed by the candidate’s campaign committee.

    However, as of this morning, the candidate’s committee has directed us to discontinue airing the advertisement so it is no longer being broadcast on KTVL.

    Kingsley Kelley General Manager KTVL-TV: CBS & The CW 1440 Rossanley Medford, OR 97501 (541) 773-7373

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    I just heard the ad on KXL AM 750 radio station and it clearly said, "...CAN be used....".

    I have a feeling the ads have been pulled, edited and now are back on the air.

  • LT (unverified)
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    Righty, Exactly what punishment do you propose for employing illegal aliens in farming, landscaping, hospitality, or any other industry? That's the question I heard discussed at a candidate forum last night.

    Maybe Saxton doesn't want to clamp down on his business friends, just attack his opponent.

    If he has evidence of illegal voting, that is a felony. Information on a felony should be turned over to law enforcement, not just put in a TV ad.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Handing out drivers licenses without checking citizenship SHOULD be a crime, but it isn't. Oregon is one of ten states that still do not demand proof of citizenship. From what I understand, this wll change in 2008 when the new national ID law takes effect.

  • Sid Anderson (unverified)
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    Considering the fact that undocumented workers prefer to stay in the shadows, not be noticed by law enforcement, etc., why would they put themselves in a position where they could be noticed, i.e. by voting illegally?

    This is just a scare tactic to rally up the base, and Saxton knows it.

  • KJ (unverified)
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    Let's consider the point of view of the day laborers standing on street corners waiting for the next cash-on-the-barrelhead job. How likely are they to have a street address that they can receive mail at? They need a residential street address to register to vote (no, PO boxes don't cut it when registering to vote -- read the form for yourself!). They have to check the box and sign the registration form stating under penalty of felony that they are citizens entitled to vote. They have to give their mailing address to a government agency where it is a permanent public record. They have to do this at least 20 days before the election. Why would they risk being caught and deported by giving this address to a government agency? Unlike other states like Minnesota someone cannot just show up at the elections office, get a ballot and vote. In Oregon with Vote By Mail it is much, much more risky for an illegal to attempt to vote than in other states. The registration cut-off was put in place the last time there were concerns about homeless men being trucked into Rajneeshpuram (Antelope) from LA in order to help the Rajneeshis take over the government there. The harsh reality is that Oregon law has safeguards built into it that make mass voter registration by illegal aliens highly unlikely -- and very risky for the illegals.

    Incidentally, where were those who are whining about whether SOS Bradbury is doing enough investigating fraudulent voting by illegal immigrants when the Republicans in the legislature CUT the investigation unit budget? That was the time to express concern about the effect of that cutback -- not as part of a partisan mudslinging.

  • Fred (unverified)
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    Not apparent in all these comments is a strong impression I felt about racial baiting in the ad. I hope it costs Ron big time.

  • JHL (unverified)
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    Torrid, I get your point, but you don't get mine. Yes, I agree with you when you say that Saxton's ad is "completely without basis." Yes, Saxton is stupid. It's not something we generally censor.

    To censor any political viewpoint that is completely without basis is to unravel the first amendment entirely. Not to mention that the phrase "completely without basis" is, obviously, subjective.

    The next time a Democrat runs an ad saying, "John Jones is wrong for our District..." will that candidate be required to show documentation? Or if Kulongoski says, "I worked to shut down meth labs," will we make the governor provide timesheets showing those efforts taking place?

  • mudnducs (unverified)
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    As usual....liberals entirely miss the point. Ask yourself why Saxtons ad is running. It's the ILLEGALS stupid!

    Now ask yourself why we have so many ILLEGALS here?

    2 reasons:

    1 Our politicians and liberal body politic support it by looking the other way or actively encouraging it.

    2 Businesses profit from it...cheap labor.

    Both reasons suck. It is insanity to encourage a body of people who do not want to assimilate into our society, who ARE a drain on our already strained resources, and who show NO desire to become Americans.

    I hope Kulongoski is toast.

  • myranda (unverified)
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    Someone really should look into whether Saxton hired illegals to work in that cherry orchard that he brags about once having owned. And what he paid them.

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    Our politicians and liberal body politic support it by looking the other way or actively encouraging it.

    The number of illegal immigrants who have come in to the United States has doubled after 5 years of Bush and a Republican congress. The real political leadership on this issue has come primarily from Democratic Governors in border states like Janet Napolitano and Bill Richardson.

    By contrast, some Republican politicians are playing both sides of the immigration debate: On the one hand, their national leaders are doing nothing to secure our borders or enforce our existing laws, while on the other, people like Saxton, who has probably hired undocumented workers on the cherry farm he used to run, are using this issue as a race-baiting tool to gain votes.

    The simple truth is that most Americans have looked the other way on this issue for the last 20 years (or longer). And it's true that we need to do something about it.

    It's not okay for employers to use undocumented workers to skirt our minimum wage laws. And illegal labor is clearly depressing wages in construction and other sectors of our economy.

    I have no problem with making it more difficult for people to illegally obtain driver's licenses. Identity theft is a very real problem in this country, and it transcends the immigration debate.

    No Democratic politician I know opposes that kind of reform.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Years ago, the vast majority of illegal aliens from the south came here to work the fields in the summer, behaved themselves, then went back to their families in Mexico. Ever since that moron Ronald Reagan granted them blanket amnesty in 1986, the trend has been for them to come up here and stay permanently and bring their huge families with them. They and their children receive government handouts and free or very cheap healthcare. It seems our governmental agencies have bent over backwards to accomodate these illegal aliens and encouraged them to invite their friends to come up.

    If Ron Saxton's latest advertisement is any indication, he will hopefully begin to reverse this process of invasion. Many of them, especially in California, have publicly professed their goal is to "take back" the Sowuthwestern States. And, if anyone thinks they all come here just to better their lives and make life better for us, just Google the words "crime victims of illegal aliens" and you'll receive an education.

    I will vote for Ron Saxton. At least he isn't digging the hole deeper.

  • Sam (unverified)
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    This couldn't be more clear. TK had four years, JK had 8 years, BR had four years and none of these D Governors did anything about the soaring illegal immigration problem in Oregon. Kulongoski will not do anything not mandated by the feds.
    Oregon's drivers licenses have been so compromised by illegals obtaining them with help from the agency and the governor that problems lie ahead.

    I not only want Saxton to win but immediately afterwards I want an investigation into the DMV regarding destroying public records and other violations.

  • mudnducs (unverified)
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    BINGO Sam!!!!!!!!!!!

    The push for the IRS to quit granting deductions for ANY employee who odes not have a valid SSN....make employers eat the wages they paid out if they hired illegals.

    Illegals would become economic pariahs overnight....let them find their own way home...same way they got here.

  • LT (unverified)
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    Years ago, the vast majority of illegal aliens from the south came here to work the fields in the summer, behaved themselves, then went back to their families in Mexico. Ever since that moron Ronald Reagan granted them blanket amnesty in 1986,

    Alan Simpson and his co-author (Mazolli?) would not like that description of their bill (they passed it in Congress).

    And don't forget the migrant workers who came here from places like Texas to pick crops and then went home.

    I am all for strong employer sanctions. And for making sure that those who hire illegals are not eligible for any business tax breaks. Let's make a public example of those employers.

    Isn't there a Senate race somewhere (think I saw this on the news) where some Republican candidate is bashing the opponent for being soft on illegals but there are public documents showing that this Republican owned a farm or a business which was subjected to government sanctions for the number of illegal aliens discovered to be working on the premises?

    Someone needs to ask Saxton if he thinks all privitization efforts work. The problem with the drivers licenses given out to people not legally entitled to them was a botched privitization effort in Washington Co. as I recall.

    I haven't seen Saxton proposing an agenda which he could take to the legislature and pass because electing him meant electing his agenda. And I doubt there is much he can do about licenses or anything else like this by executive order alone.

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    How dumb do you have to be to think that we can keep people from coming here illegally by not giving them driver's licenses? Even Ron Saxton is not really that dumb. As KC points out, what that gets us is drivers who don't learn the rules and can't get insurance. Great combination.

    We can probably make a significant difference by how we treat our borders but our borders are very large and that's going to cost a huge amount of money.

    The most effective way of preventing illegal immigration is to remove the incentive. You do that by making it impossible for people who come here illegally to work.

    Where are Ron Saxton's serious proposals to crack down on employers who hire people who are here illegally? Check his website, he hasn't got any.

  • sasha (unverified)
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    This comment thread is very amusing. Don't you realize that by complaining and whining about the ad all you do is draw more attention to it and hurt your candidate?

    Parse the words all you want: "....and EVEN TO VOTE!"

    Bottom line, you are incapable of putting yourselves in the shoes of the regular people who hear the ad and see the big picture: we shouldn't be making it easy for illegal immigrants to be here, and that is precisely what Ted Kulongoski has been doing.

    It isn't about the trees, folks, it's about the forest. And you are hyper focused on the pine needles on the trees, in usual myopic liberal fashion. Totally out of touch.

    You are so out of touch that you make a big deal about those pine needles, only to focus everyone's attention more on the forest!

    I thank you and Ron Saxton thanks you! Please keep the letters to the editors callinbg attention to the ads coming!

  • LT (unverified)
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    Sasha, Bottom line, you are incapable of putting yourselves in the shoes of the regular people who hear the ad and see the big picture: we shouldn't be making it easy for illegal immigrants to be here, and that is precisely what Ted Kulongoski has been doing.

    I guess I am not a regular person. I knew our county clerk for many years as a friend before he was our county clerk.

    The other day I was talking with him about this whole thing. He reminded me it is a felony to register or vote if one isn't a citizen of Oregon.

    Either Saxton has evidence of a felony or he doesn't. If he does, he should turn that evidence over to law enforcement.

    But if not, the ads are just made from a national template--made clear from a news story about ads in use across the country by Republican candidates which use exactly the same language if not the same announcer.

    Where is Saxton on employer sanctions? Or does he think that merely having drivers on Oregon roads who were never tested on traffic laws, are not required to be insured, didn't have their eyes tested, and do not have an address on file with the DMV will solve the national problem with illegal aliens?

    And how many "illegal voters" can he point to discovered in Washington in those multiple recounts of the Gov. election? And which was a larger number: illegal alien votes or Oregonians voting in Washington?

    Sasha, one more thing. About this comment: "Bottom line, you are incapable of putting yourselves in the shoes of the regular people who hear the ad ".

    Get a life! Most of the "regular people who hear the ad" are people who spend their lives doing something other than blogging. Or maybe you aren't aware of the number of folks who have never read a blog.

  • (Show?)

    Amazing, blame those pesky liberals...those accomodating democrats....

    Funny thing is, repub Mudnducs, is right, well partially...

    About Saxton's ad, Mudnducs says "It's the ILLEGALS, stupid!" Yeah, we know, it's already been pointed out that the ad is race-baiting.

    Then he postures that so many ILLEGALS here because....

    "Our politicians and liberal body politic support it by looking the other way or actively encouraging it."

    Partial credit here... "liberal body politic"? Where? in Reed's student goverment? Yep, the body politic has looked the other way... the Reagan and Bush body politics that have dominated for a generation, and baby Bush has worked out a pretty cozy arrangement w/ Boss Fox... BTW, We've not seen a liberal White House - Clinton signed NAFTA into law after it was passed by a republican congress. No, Mudnducs, Clinton was not and IS not a liberal.... just a popular, gregarious moderate.

    And Mudnducs recognizes that: "Businesses profit from it...cheap labor."

    Full credit here. The left has long complained about the profiteers in coorporation land.

    This battle over immigration is a sickeningly repetitive... Historically, Americans, while most not of families well rooted in US soil, have complained about the immigrants - the Chinese, the Germans, the Irish, etc. Our harbors have always been open and welcoming when the corporate world needed the hands of the working man (or woman). When the economy tightened, the immigrants still served a useful role as the fall guy. No jobs? Blame the immigrant. Tight public monies? Blame the immigrant. And the corporation still reeped the benefits as the American worker was pitted against the immigrant.

    But like everything else that's controversial, the republicans try to line up democrats, waggle their fingers, and scream "They did it! THEY did it! It's not MY fault." Youbetcha, it's Babs fault that illegals crossed the border into Texas. Blame Kitzhaber because the nation of Mexico activily encourages northward migration, blame TK because multi-national corporations drew 10s of thousands into the hurricane ravaged southeast.

    Oh, I hear your comeback... it's about the Oregon borders. Well, we don't live in a vacumn folks, and last time I checked, the only inspection stations on the highway were on the CA side going south.

    The "solution" to the controversy of immigration lies not in laying blame on the democrats, nor in philistine bumperstickerisms, nor in wackadoodle fences or bus caravans. The fact remains that there are 11-12 million folks here "illegally," and while I'm skeptical of all the rightwing bluster proclaiming "drained resources," the influx of immigrants from the south is evidence to a massive economic disparity that does need a solution... a real, broadbased circumspective solution that seeks to remedy the disparities.

    But for now, if all you can handle is the bunperstickerisms, well, enjoy your ad....

  • lin qiao (unverified)
    (Show?)

    Geez Louise, it's Swift Boat Vets all over again, and once again the Democratic target's response to a smear is along the lines of, gee, that's not fair, would you guys mind pulling the ad, pretty please?

  • Sam (unverified)
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    LT wrote "He reminded me it is a felony to register or vote if one isn't a citizen of Oregon"

    The problem you have like so many apologist liberals is you have no ability to keep up and bone up on matters you want shoved under the rug.

    DMV workers have been knowingly registering illegal aliens to vote even when they DO NOT check the voter registration box. Doing so with large groups at a time who all give the same address, among other red flags.

    But you wouldn't know that in your circle because it's never discussed. There are many problems with Public agencies and illegals in this State. Most of which could be easily fixed by a Governor who wasn't so uninformed and misguided as yourself and felt a genuine obligation to provide the controls necessary to avoid such maleficence. The governor will continue to stand aside while these agencies run rough shod over common sense and their reponsibility to follow law and order.

    It's quite simple this November.

    If you want illegal immigration to soar without any challenges by state government re-elect Kulongoski.

  • (Show?)

    Sammy says:

    "DMV workers have been knowingly registering illegal aliens to vote even when they DO NOT check the voter registration box. But you wouldn't know that in your (liberal) circle because it's never discussed."

    Good gawd, Sammy, what are they smokin' in YOUR circle?!

    ...sounds like even more than red herring.....

  • LT (unverified)
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    Sam, what is your evidence that actual DMV workers (and in which office? ) are doing what you say? Or do you mean that privitzation gone bad exercise in Washington County? DMV workers have been knowingly registering illegal aliens to vote even when they DO NOT check the voter registration box. Doing so with large groups at a time who all give the same address, among other red flags.

    As a prosecutor's daughter (and someone who thinks ideological labels aren't much good in the 21st century, although some people like to smear their opponents with such labels) I believe in prosecuting those who break the law. But that requires all the constitutional provisions of collecting evidence, bringing criminal information in front of a grand jury, etc.

    All you are doing (short of evidence) is spreading a rumor.

  • Reed (unverified)
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    Hey, I have an idea; Why doesn't someone ask Ron Saxton if he (or his family) or his law firm, has ever hired an illegal immigrant. Do you think they have ever hired someone to do their yard work who might have been an illegal? Do you think the Ater Wynn law firm has hired cleaners that have been illegal's?

  • je (unverified)
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    Far-left liberals can feel good, they have definitely proved they don't care about legal working men's wages.

  • Gah! (unverified)
    (Show?)

    Geez, you silly conservatives kinda have a preconception about this issue without looking at the facts.

    Bill Clinton's Justice department issued hundreds of indictments in their first year in office (and every year after) against companies who were keeping wages down by hiring illegal immigrants. Bush's entire administration has issued only a few dozen.

    The fact is that R's may rail against it to rile up their base, but they don't forget where their money comes from -- those same companies (Wal-Mart, home builders, ag industry) whose profit margins stay high because they can hire illegals. The Democrats' money comes from unions, who want wages to increase and would not like to compete with the crazy-low-wages of undocumented workers.

    Use your flipping head and follow the money and the record!

  • Gah! (unverified)
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    Perfect example of Republicans stance on immigration: Tough talk, but no effect.

    If you haven't seen this already, its worth 30 seconds.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goI2rvzOKDw

  • Sam (unverified)
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    No rumor.

    Those actions by DMV workers was reported by a DMV worker who was run out of the agency for applying due diligence to his job. He witnessed, on a regular basis, his peers placing cards from illegals without voter registration checks into the register to vote process.

    The denial by liberals on this issue is staggering.

    I want to know if any of you object to the DMV's actions?

    I get the feeling if you had video showing the staffing providing drivers licenses to and registering to vote illegal immigrants you would still deny and spin it as no problem.

    That's fine. But voters should know how enabling and weak you are on illegal immigration and vote accordingly if they have problems with the severity of illegal immigration.

    Why shouldn't voters have the luxury of clearly understanding how Oregon Democrat officials handle illegal immigration? Aren't you the ones forever lecturing how voters need to be more informed? Especially when they overwhelmingly pass initiatives you don't like?

    So where's the lecture now? With illegal immigration ya'll appear to prefer covering it up and keeping the public uninformed. No surprise there.

  • JHL (unverified)
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    Sam -- presumably, you're a Republican.

    The Republicans have controlled ALL THE LEVERS OF GOVERMENT at the federal level for how many years now?

    Don't tell me that the Repubs couldn't lock down the borders if they wanted to.

    But instead, you'd rather blame some mystery employee at the Oregon DMV?

    The fact is, as long as big Republican donors want that cheap labor, there's going to be illegals coming in. And even though we've seen a massive failure on a national scale for the Republicans to address the issue in any meaningful sense, it's the Oregon DMV that's the source of our national woe?

    I thought the Republican party was supposed to be about personal respnosibility, but you guys pass the buck on every issue you come across.

    (By the way... just saying "no rumor" at the top of your post doesn't make it not a rumor. Cite some sources!)

  • Sam (unverified)
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    JHL, Perfect response.

    It proved my point. You want voters to not understand and avoid considering what Democrat officials have been doing and will be doing regarding illegal immigration. Never mind illegals have come here from other states to obtain driver's licenses (Government sanctioned Fake ID) and return to other locales with official Oregon documents which falsely establish a measure of legal status.

    No surprise that you shift the focus on the feds when you are obviously ill-equipped, (and avoid like the plague), to address Oregon contributions to illegal immigration.

    Your attempt at narrowing the Oregon leadership's scandalous behavior down to some helpless state as long as "big Republican donors want that cheap labor" is pathetic. So is your laughable "it's not the Oregon DMV that's the source of our national woe?"

    Is it "big Republic donors" causing Oregon's Democratic leadership to be so helpful to illegals?

    Yeah, sure it is.

    Big Republican donors are always effecting Oregon's Democrat dominated public agencies.

    Ted K must be on the phone with them regularly to make sure he's behaving.

    Ted K controls not only the DMV but every other state agency coming in contact with illegals. The TK, Oregon Democrat approach to all of them is the same as the DMV. This voters should know.

    You obviously don't want them knowing anything about what you pals do.

    There is no "passing the buck" on every issue Republicans come across. Nearly ALL of the energy behind the drive for immigration law enforcement comes from the Republican ranks. With little or none from your hide their agenda democrats. The same can be said for many issues. But on illegal immigration there is an exceptional divide between the enforcer Republican ranks and the enabling Democrat ranks.

    I said "no rumor" because the particular problem I was mentioning was in the Albany Democrat Herald and the DMV worker gave a speech with Q&As at an event I attended.

    Again, I'll state that your status quo controllers of Oregon State are not interested in such stories or problems at all. They want voters to mistakenly think they don't exist and prefer public ignorance when it suits them.

    I gather you in particular would not find anything wrong with the DMV scenario even after your acknowledging it's existence.

  • Sam (unverified)
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    You want voters to not understand and avoid considering what OREGON Democrat officials have been doing and will be doing regarding illegal immigration.

  • Phil Jones (unverified)
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    Until the Oregon database of voter registration is checked for citizenship accuracy, there will be continuous argument as to how many, if any, illegal aliens are registered to vote. The Secretary of State flatly has refused to perform this audit. What is Bradbury hiding? Is he hiding his job incompetence or several thousand illegally registered voters?

    The voter registration roles should be audited for citizenship accuracy BEFORE the election. Otherwise, questions of malfeasance of office or worse will linger.

  • Sam (unverified)
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    "Until the Oregon database of voter registration is checked for citizenship accuracy, there will be continuous argument as to how many, if any, illegal aliens are registered to vote."

    There are many things like that which honest and responsible officials would do as common practice.

    But the Governor and SoS do not.

    And again, this lack of responsible governance is being withheld from the voting populous by those in charge and their allies in the press and here at BlueOregon.

  • Anon (unverified)
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    Go nuts, Sam.

    Nice rant... nearly three posts in a row.

    Take note, readers -- this is how to organize your political beef into a rational, easy-to-understand manifesto. :)

    This only seems to be a problem during an election year.

  • LT (unverified)
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    Sam, thanks for giving yourself away. You want voters to not understand and avoid considering what OREGON Democrat officials have been doing and will be doing regarding illegal immigration.

    Let me make this very clear. People who are being neutral say that we have 2 US Senators, Wyden and Smith. Wyden is the Democratic Senator, Smith is the Republican Senator. Wyden is a Democrat, Smith is a Republican.

    There was an attempt many years ago by certain Republicans to turn "the Democrat party" into a snarl. As in "always trust the Republican party, never trust those people in the Democrat party".

    Perhaps that is why over 20% of Oregonians said "a pox on both your houses, why do I have to join a party?".

    If you are one of those who would say if there were 80 Republican legislators in Oregon, a Republican Gov. and all the statewide offices were held by Republicans that anything going wrong was the fault of Democrats, go right ahead. But I think most folks realize that the majority party is responsible for the actions of the majority party.

    And if Saxton has evidence of a felony (registering or voting when not a citizen is a felony) he should provide it to law enforcement. But this sounds like he doesn't want to talk about solutions, he just wants to smear his opponent.

    And does Saxton think that if he were elected Gov. he could fire all public employees and rehire them without PERS? He said that earlier this year. Maybe he thinks he could fire all DMV workers and replace them because someone somewhere (whether it was a DMV employee or an employee of a privitized licensing experiment) provided licenses to people not entitled to a license? And neither the courts or the legislature could prevent such firing?

    What was that about Portland school district janitors getting their jobs back because the school district wrongfully terminated them? Was that firing done while Saxton was on the school board?

    Or doesn't that matter because if only immigration were dealt with by bashing DMV employees (who have never been proven to be hiring illegals) and not mentioning employer sanctions, all problems would be solved?

  • RinoWatch (unverified)
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    JHL - Sam

    "But instead, you'd rather blame some mystery employee at the Oregon DMV?"

    Lavay Jefferies is the "mystery employee"(s) name. He was fired by the head of Oregon DMV, Lorna Youngs.

    Mr. Jefferies is a military retiree who was a DMV supervisor in Dallas, OR. The PE Union sued for his job re-instatement which was granted provided he accept a transfer to Salem.

    Mr. Jefferies, a fine gentlemen, chose to retire from DMV.

    If you want more RW will be glad to provide you with more...

  • Sam (unverified)
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    LT, I think you are nuts.

    Most folks realize who controls this State and the agencies who facilitate illegal immigration.
    Despite your blatant blue attempt to muddy the waters.

    Your weak attempt to narrow the problem to "one dmv worker somewhere" is more evidence of cover up by your party.
    The effort to conceal from the public the Oregon Democratic track record on illegal immigration is typical election year stench. Something which y'all preach only comes from Republicans.

    Here's the newspaper stories. You can read them, ignore, bash the messenger and berate Jeffries. You can avoid any follow up. Avoid contacting Jeffries to get the rest of his story and continue ignoring your role in the soaring illegal immigration problem.

    Now watch these Blues either dismiss Jeffries or completley ignore the problem.

    http://www.itemizerobserver.com/ArcStoryPage.asp?Database=Story&StoryID=7734 Former DMV worker is still attempting to clear his name Date Published to Web: 1/4/2006

    http://www.itemizerobserver.com/ArcStoryPage.asp?Database=Story&StoryID=8137 Jeffries settles for satisfaction after DMV "racial profiling" firing. Date Published to Web: 1/4/2006

  • (Show?)

    OK, I'll bite...

    Let's see the documentation regarding the Jefferies case.

    In the meantime, peruse this:

    October 8, 2006 Editorial Observer

    American Elections and the Grand Old Tradition of Disenfranchisement By ADAM COHEN

    "...The current wave of (voter ID) laws began after 2000, when the presidency was decided by just 537 votes. With today's closely divided electorate, there is more strategic value than ever in disenfranchising people who fall into groups likely to support the other party. To a disheartening degree, this new wave is supported almost entirely by Republicans and opposed only by Democrats.

    The opposition should be bipartisan. Disenfranchisement undermines not only American democracy, but also the whole idea of America, by illegitimately excluding some people from their rightful place in it...."

    For the full article, go to....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/opinion/08sun3.html?pagewanted=print

    BOTTOM LINE FOLKS:

    While the right feigns horror at "voter fraud," their stategic intent is clear, and it's backed by statistics. The more successful the right is in lowering the voter turnout, the more successful their candidtes will be. Once again, if the right was sooooo concerned about problems in the election process, why do they not hold Diebold and the like accountable for bad software and defective equipment? Why do they not hold election officials to task when they allow uncertified machines to operate in an election? Why do they pay for the creation of "caging lists" such as the one which challenged the legitimacy of military voters?

    I'll even give you the possibility that an illegal registration could occur, (never say "never," right?), but in the context of all the other election problems, this voter fraud business is a big fat red herring with a significant ulterior motive.

  • (Show?)

    I see Sam posted the links as I was writing and submitting my last post. I'll check 'em out.

    Make you a deal, Sam. I'll check out your info and you check out mine... some places to go:

    www.oregonvrc.org www.votetrustUSA.org

  • (Show?)

    Sam, I'm having trouble wtih the links and have to go conduct non-cyberspace life. I promise you I will follow thru and find and read the articles.

  • RinoWatch (unverified)
    (Show?)

    The links do not function well---here is one report -- The others may be obtained by going to:

    http://www.itemizerobserver.com

    search the archives: LaVay Jeffries

    No kidding folks --- DMV contributed to at least 80,000 drivers licenses being issued under strange conditions....

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Jeffries settles for satisfaction after DMV "racial profiling" firing. Story by: Erin Zysett Date Published to Web: 3/15/2006 DALLAS -- LaVay Jeffries, the former DMV worker who was fired last summer after he called Dallas police and flagged the file of a woman he thought was providing false information to get a driver's license, has won his wrongful termination battle. On May 4, 2005 Jeffries became suspicious of a woman, Jimenez Mesa, who was attempting to get an Oregon learner's driving permit. The woman failed her test and Jeffries flagged her file, then contacted Police about his suspicions. DMV reacted by reprimanding Jeffries and giving him a last chance agreement, which he refused to sign. He was then fired, with the reason reported as "racial profiling." In January 2006, Administrative Law Judge Jonathan F. Micheletti said that because Jeffries was terminated for refusing to sign a last-chance agreement, not for misconduct, he qualified for unemployment benefits. Jeffries was awarded retroactive unemployment compensation. Then, on Feb. 1, eight months after his termination, Jefferies was awarded back pay from DMV, minus any money he had made since his termination and unemployment benefits. He was also told that he could return to work, but not in Dallas. Instead, he was told to report to the North Salem DMV office. The pre-dimissal and dismissal notices were removed from his permanent record. In essence, his name was cleared. Jefferies retired without working a day in the Salem office. "I feel that I could no longer work for an organization that treated its employees so poorly for only doing what I thought was right," Jeffries said. Jeffries, a retired military officer, worked for the DMV for 15 years before the March incident. For DMV's rescinding of the termination and paying his back wages, Jefferies agreed not to pursue legal action -- which he feels he would have won. He has said from the beginning that he only wanted to clear his name. Now, having done that, he says he is happy to leave the bureaucracy and spend time driving a school bus. "I believe that what I did in calling the police was the right thing to do and in the best interest of the public. Some of the DMV hierarchy did not see it that way, so it is best that we go our separate ways. I could no longer work for them in good conscience," Jeffries said. Jimenez Mesa, the woman who set the whole controversy in motion, remains a mystery. It is known that she returned a week later to the North Salem DMV office and passed her test. The resolution of Jeffries' case comes right on the heels of a major fraud trial in the Hillsboro area. Members of the Robleto family were accused of running a fraud ring that enabled thousands of illegal immigrants to get Oregon driver's licenses. One of the cousins, Miguel Robleto, worked for a number of years at the DMV and ran a driver training school that was used to front the illegal operations. Two of the main defendants in the case, brothers, Sergio and Fabio Robleto, and Miguel were all found not guilty last month. However, Judge Michael McElligott opined that "Clearly, crimes had been committed." The Robleto family was accused of providing people from out of state with envelopes for proof of residency in Oregon. According to the testimony of undercover detective Victor Castro, the Robleto ring would take empty envelopes by the hundreds and write their own address in pencil on the front, and then mail them to themselves. When the envelopes arrived, they would erase their penciled writing and sell the postmarked envelopes for $25 apiece. People interested in acquiring false proof of residency could write whatever addresses they desired on them. The first people to alert officials were local postal carriers who noticed all the empty envelops going through their system. They were told not to concern themselves. Then DMV workers, like Jefferies, started noticing odd envelopes being used as residency ID. Most had Hillsboro postmarks. Some came from as far away as Ontario. The DMV workers, too, were told by supervisors that they weren't law enforcement officials and it was none of their concern. Jeffries said he remembered hearing rumors about this sort of thing and had been following the Robleto case. He said that was part of what caused an initial red flag in his head. "I had heard this sort of thing was going on, and with the odd behavior of her driver, something just didn't add up," Jeffries said. The Robleto case and by association, the Jeffries case, have become rallying tools for immigration reform groups -- as well as groups concerned with voter fraud. Many of the people accused of using forged envelopes also used false voter registration cards to get their driver's licenses. Members of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) have taken an interest in this peculiar loophole in Oregon's DMV requirements. A few months ago an illegal immigrant from Asia was picked up in Brooklyn with an Oregon driver's license. He had never lived in the Oregon.

    Webmaster Copyright Eagle Newspapers Inc., 2000 - 2006

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  • LT (unverified)
    (Show?)

    OK, interesting story. I fail to see why that makes every elected Democrat in Oregon somehow complicit in illegal immigration. Or maybe that is to prevent us from asking about employer sanctions for hiring illegals.

    I couldn't find the search archives link on the IO, but I did Google the key words and found this on a blog:

    This was not the first time Jeffries has called police when he suspected customers of criminal activity. On April 27, 1999, Fereja Seifu was arrested after Jeffries called police because he suspected Seifu of trying to obtain false Oregon ID cards for Abdulah Ahmed K. Alqubaisi, Hamad Sayah Al Mazrouei and Mansour Almulla. Seifu stood trial later that year, and he was convicted of the sale of documents for purposes of misrepresentation.

    Which just proves my point---there have been prosecutions. But trial and conviction require evidence.

    I don't see how the wrongful termination debate over Jeffries supports the numbers in the Saxton ad.

    As far as not giving illegal aliens drivers licenses, the story above has this: " The woman failed her test and Jeffries flagged her file, then contacted Police about his suspicions. "

    Saxton doesn't want illegal aliens to have drivers licenses, but does that mean they won't drive? Or does it mean that people who couldn't pass the tests for a license, who may not have insurance on their vehicles should be driving in Oregon ? How would he know their identity if they never show up to be tested? And how does that make drivers safer to have unlicensed drivers on the road?

    How will Saxton's proposed tax cuts fund enforcement of all this?

    Do we know for a fact that no one he knows has ever hired an illegal? Not for day labor or construction or farm or restaurant work?

    This is the classic distraction tactic. Eagle Newspapers are well known in this area because of their ownership. But why did no other news outlet cover this story? All that showed up on Google were blogs.

    Could this be the classic story of something blown out of proportion? The story says "The DMV workers, too, were told by supervisors that they weren't law enforcement officials and it was none of their concern. "

    Every DMV worker was told that? Every Dallas DMV worker was told that? What are the names of the people who said that, and have they been contacted for comment? For instance, if John Smith, DMV manager told DMV workers at a particular location (or in an agency wide communication) on the date xx/xx/xx that might be believable. But the quote is too vague to give that information.

    If you Saxton folks want to say "Vote Saxton because the Jeffries story shows that illegal immigrants getting drivers licenses are a problem of epidemic proportions" then by all means do so. That at least has a shred of proof. But slamming all Democrats because they aren't upset about a story that was never in any news medium outside of Polk County is a bit of a stretch. Makes it sound like discussing details is not what Saxton supporters believe in. If you want to emphasize that point, feel free.

  • Sam (unverified)
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    LT, "I fail to see why that makes every elected Democrat in Oregon somehow complicit in illegal immigration."

    Is that supposed to be slick? That if it aint every one it's none?

    Who said every one anyway?

    What "it makes" is how the agency is run by Democrats. The DMV and other agencies, run by Democrat governor appointees (and saturated with Democrat management) facilitate illegal immigration, pure and simply. Not every public employee and I'm sure you were headed for that straw man boiler plate. There are countless hard working and honest public employees. The liberal management with agendas is a different story.

    If you have no familiarity with the management of our government agencies then perhaps you should not be chiming in.

    All you appear to be doing is denying everything that has been happening for years.

    "Could this be the classic story of something blown out of proportion?"

    No it's a classic big story not covered by the O and Statesman Journal.

    The news "story" is not the whole story. If you had ever heard the rest from Jeffries and the reporter you would not be so cavalear about such scandelous behavior by public agency. The problem is your fearless leaders know what is going on and they have no interest in halting any of the shennanigans. They,TK et al are illegal immigration enablers and facilitators. Multiple State agencies operate under the same don't ask, don't tell, don't look, don't get curious, don't enforce and don't qualify methods.

    Admit it, you don't care and you don't want the public at large knowing.

    TK et al are more interested in a campaign to deny everything than simple records checks and investigations.

  • (Show?)

    I'm missing something, evidently. What does a criminal working for the DMV have to do with Democrats in Oregon? More specifically, what on earth does it have to do with the governor's race, and what POSSIBLY could it have to do with the charge that undocumented workers are voting?

  • (Show?)

    As someone who has applied for, and received, government benefits in the past few years, I can assure you it takes A LOT more than just a drivers license to get benefits.

    I had to submit an application along with copies of our licenses, SS cards, our daughter's birth certificate, copy of our lease, and a few other items. The authenticity was then checked before I came in to meet with a caseworker.

    This is something that Republicans regularly use against Democrats. I've seen it plenty of times.

  • JHL (unverified)
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    According to the US Constitution, it is not for state agencies to determine citizenship or issue documents that can be used to prove citizenship.

    The DMV's authority in issuing drivers' licenses is limited to determining residency, competency to drive, etc. That's why a drivers' license in not sufficient for your I-9 form when looking for work... the form requires you to show a federal document.

    Don't like that illegals are competent to drive? Tough nuts.

    Want to strengthen the rules governing citizenship and stem the immigration tide? Call Congress.

    Want illegals to pay their "fair share" in taxes? Support a sales tax.

  • JHL (unverified)
    (Show?)

    (Oop -- small correction... you can legally work without showing a federal document if you show a birth certificate instead.)

  • Son Raxton (unverified)
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    Man this is bozo central? 39 States require proof of legal status to get a drivers license. Wake the heck up Teddy.

  • LT (unverified)
    (Show?)

    So Sam, if Saxton wins, at what point does Ron Saxton become responsible for the actions of everyone working in or managing state agencies? 6 months? A year or 2?

    You said "What "it makes" is how the agency is run by Democrats. The DMV and other agencies, run by Democrat governor appointees (and saturated with Democrat management) ".

    So, if Saxton is elected, anyone running for any Oregon office in 2008 will be able to say any problem in any state agency is the sole responsibility of Ron Saxton and the Republicans? Or will you find a way to blame Democrats anyway?

    Are you out campaigning for Saxton and legislative candidates, or just blogging?

  • Sam (unverified)
    (Show?)

    "Are you out campaigning for Saxton and legislative candidates, or just blogging?"

    I'm campaigning against the status quo liberal democrat domination of our state agencies.

    If it takes Saxton to boot the management and dysfuction from ODOT to DMV to HHS so be it.

    Voters have the choice here no don't they?

    They can keep supporting the degradation of our road system and the soaring illegal immigration problem by voting for Kulongoski or they can vote for Saxton and change it.

    You have a real problem knowing and admitting what you liberal leaders have done to this state.

    Of course they were never given enough money, for anything, right?

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