Novick & Merkley: two great choices
The following comment was posted by T.A. Barnhart on Saturday night:
despite the appearance of another circular firing squad (go Dems go!), i want to say this is one primary vote i am looking forward to. Steve is my guy in this, but if he loses, damn, i'm going to have someone great to support! i am so proud of how Jeff Merkley led the House after 16 years of abject, partisan failure by a succession of lunatic Rs. like holy water drives out the demons, Merkley's application of real democracy to that body has now driven out even more of the nasties.Novick or Merkley, we are going to send Gordo back to his ranch so he can sit on the porch and shell peas as he stares into the sunset. we have two great options who have enough sense to use the debates & primary to demostrate why Smith has to go, and whoever prevails will have the unwavering, full-bore support of the other.
it's rare when you have two choices you can be proud of. let's enjoy it.
Discuss.
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Sept. 02, 2007
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12:02 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
I agree with T.A. about this choice. In many respect Novick and Merkley have similar backgrounds.
Both come from less-than-afluent families and would fit perfectly in CCR's It Ain't Me. Both have fought on behalf of the "less than's" of society. Both graduated from Ivy League institutions. Both distinguished themselves professionally, demonstrating that, unlike our "compassionate conservative" President, their respective academic achievements were based solidly on merit. They each specialized in very different areas, but those areas of expertise are both among the most pressing issues of our time and all indications are that they'll be among the most pressing issues for our children and their children.
This looks to be a classic "can't lose" choice for progressive, patriotic Oregonians.
12:16 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
"Both graduated from Ivy League institutions."
Did Jeff go Ivy for his grad work too? I only know about Stanford.
12:19 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
Having two great candidates in the primary makes for a better candidate in the general. We are going to have a tough fight in the general election regardless who wins.
Sep 2, '07
Merkley was less than scintillating on Kremer & Abrams this am.
Displayed quite a thin skin when confronted with a discussion of his philosophies re: basic rights, including national healthcare.
Novick could eat Merkley alive, head to head.....
12:50 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
Read his bio, Torrid. He did his post-grad work at Princeton.
Sep 2, '07
Hmm. Based on RinoWatch's comments above, looks like the Republicans are getting nervous.
Me, I'm glad to have a race where either guy is someone I could support enthusiastically in the general election. Decisions, decisions, decisions....
Sep 2, '07
Somehow I don't think Mr. RinoWatch is too concerned about the prospect of Gordon Smith losing his senate seat. Just a wild guess.
Sep 2, '07
jrw,
My comment above should not be taken as Republican's getting nervous. You must not know that RW does not support El Gordo and will undervote.
You may, if you wish, consider that,(undervote) as a vote for your guy, but make no mistake about it;
Novick & Gomer are socialists, Gordo a RINO, and by default I'd prefer anyone other than a socialist.....
2:11 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
you know, i got called a socialist yesterday by someone quoting the basic talking points. mayhaps this is an oldy-but-goody tactic the righties will trot(ski) out since they have nothing else to run on. might as well dredge up the ghost of Karl Marx and start screaming about Red Invasions.
Sep 2, '07
Rhinowatch-
I was checking out your blog and you keep blasting about immigrants from mexico with profane language but ironcally when I went to post a comment the comment page was in spanish. My computer is set to english so I just thought that was really funny and I remember the same thing happening to me when I tried to post a comment on nw republican. I personally dont see Steve Novick as a US Senator but think that Merkeley would be pretty good in D.C. If i had a job and wasnt begging my parents for money so I could go on a date then I would probably give Merkeley a donation and he has my vote in the primary which will be the first primary I ever vote in.
2:49 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
As Novick and Merkley shift into higher gear they'll be tough, smart and unafraid to contrast their differences with Gordon Smith's policies, his prior votes and his abrupt turn around on the Iraq War. Merkley and Novick carry big sticks and neither will be outhustled by Gordon Smith. Both have stepped up to be real voices for change in Oregon and nationally. The intensity of Novick and Merkley will turn on their statements about what each will do for Oregon. They will be refreshingly different from Gordon Smith. Here's hoping most of us will tap down our tendency to attack our own Democratic candidates. Instead, we can sharpen our focus on ending Gordon Smith's politics in Oregon.
7:56 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
Completely agree.
And, as they appear together around the state, each will find that he will step up his game in competition with the other. By the time one of them wins the primary, he will be honed for victory. It's a win-win.
8:44 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
Yes, TJ, Merkley has a masters in public policy from the Wilson School at Princeton.
You must have missed this guest column by Jules Kopel-Bailey, in which he related the tale of his graduation from Wilson.
I'd recommend reading the full bio. Merkley's background is a fascinating one.
8:48 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
RW, you're a funny guy. I'm going to work on getting a recording of Kremer & Abrams, but the argument with Kremer over health care was Kremer challenging Merkley on whether "health care is a right." Kremer even said, "So, do you think food is a right, too?"
Merkley argued that yes, of course, health care and food are both basic human rights.
9:02 p.m.
Sep 2, '07
Intending no disrespect to either Jeff or Steve in terms of their educational attainments, I have to say that one of the things I love about the West is that the whole Ivy League "mystique" is just a lot weaker here than it is where I come from (I was born and raised in Maryland, and yes, I have an Ivy League degree myself, so I think I'm allowed to say this). So I would say, they are both smart guys with degrees from tough and selective institutions, but beyond credentialism, out here I see a lot more regard for the actual real world accomplishments by which a person's career can be meaningfully assessed (and in that area they are both quite impressive).
(Of course going to Harvard Law School when you are 18, and graduating when you are 21, as Steve did, is damned impressive and it's hardly credentialism to say so. HLS is the toughest law school in the United States, bar none.)
Sep 2, '07
Heh.
RinoWatch's comments make me wonder if said person even knows what Socialism is all about...and if said person knows how to differentiate it from Communism...and why said person is using the S word instead of the C word.
I've got my own theories.
But hey, the fact that said person is claiming to undervote rather than vote for Gordo is a positive, in my book.
Sep 2, '07
as they appear together around the state, each will find that he will step up his game in competition with the other.
I heard Merkley on the radio Friday and he didn't sound like he was in any hurry to take up Novick's challenge. And as for showing up and sharing a stage only to give a "speach" about protesting the continued occupation of Iraq without actually protesting at said event... well, in my book, that fails...
Sep 3, '07
HLS is the toughest law school in the United States, bar none.
Well, except Yale. After all, Harvard Law admits about 2.5 times as many students as Yale Law, generally accepted as the most competitive law school.
1:06 a.m.
Sep 3, '07
"You must have missed this guest column by Jules Kopel-Bailey, in which he related the tale of his graduation from Wilson."
No, I read it--I thought Wilson was part of Stanford. Just totally missed the Princeton part.
1:09 a.m.
Sep 3, '07
au contraire, Eli!
The hardest thing about Yale Law School is getting in. It is much smaller and more selective, but once you're in, it's a much more humane place than Harvard Law.
Sep 3, '07
Merkley is correct according to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Article. VI.
Clause 2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
How quaint. It seems most of our elected representative have ever read Article VI. Nor have any of the pundit blow hards who have been wrong from day one, yet still receive a paycheck.
And before any nit picker try to argue that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not a "Treaty", the Supreme Court has ruled that "Conventions" are the same under law, e.g. the UN CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Nuremberg just to name two.
Sep 3, '07
Should read never read Article VI.
I need to rent some better fingers.
Sep 3, '07
BOHICA: Are you really trying to argue that the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the law of the land in the United States?
That is one of the funniest things I have heard in a long long time. You don't actually believe that, do you? If so, how sad.
Sep 3, '07
Why doesn't Merkley's website have a section for his position on the issues like Novick's? It almost seems like we are supposed to support him just because.
As an undecided voter, I would like to see a detailed statement of where Merkley stands on the issues so I can make an educated decision.
10:51 a.m.
Sep 3, '07
Matthew -- I'm one of the folks responsible for the website. All that stuff is coming. Not to worry.
We're going to be doing a LOT of policy stuff over there.
Sep 3, '07
Stephanie:
"So I would say, they are both smart guys with degrees from tough and selective institutions, but beyond credentialism, out here I see a lot more regard for the actual real world accomplishments by which a person's career can be meaningfully assessed (and in that area they are both quite impressive)."
***On Saturday when I was talking with my 81 year old father (an Eisenhower Republican) about this race -- especially telling him about Steve's accomplishments -- I stumped him with a single question:
"Other than the suicide prevention legislation he introduced after his son's death, can you name one thing he has done in the past 12 years where he led on anything? Just one."
***Of course, I cut him some slack because he's got progressive dementia, but he couldn't name one thing.
***Isn't it time Oregon had two Senators in Washington?
Randy2
1:47 p.m.
Sep 3, '07
Wait, wasn't there something about tax breaks for multinational pharmaceutical companies?
Sep 3, '07
Posted by: You can't be serious- BOHICA: Are you really trying to argue that the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the law of the land in the United States?
Not arguing anything, just stating a fact. Just because it is ignored by the powers that be doesn't mean it isn't so.
Sep 3, '07
BOHICA: So you think it is a fact that the U.S. is bound by the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
7:37 p.m.
Sep 3, '07
We are until we formally declare we're breaking the U.N. treaty, "You can't be".
Nothing is forcing us to be in the U.N. But if our nation signs a deal, we have to stick by our side of the bargain.
Sep 3, '07
Are you people putting me on? There is no treaty. The UN Declaration was just that - a non-binding advisory declaration by the UN General Assembly.
You folks can't possibly believe that the U.S. is in any way bound by this declaration, do you?
You really crack me up!
9:04 p.m.
Sep 3, '07
I've heard this theory before, Steven and BOHICA, but have always been skeptical.
Can you share some links to sources that make the case legally? Have any U.S. courts actually upheld a claim on this basis?
9:05 p.m.
Sep 3, '07
(... which isn't to say that I'm not supportive of the idea that there are basic human rights beyond those enumerated in the U.S. Constitution -- I'm just a bit skeptical about this as a legal theory.)
9:33 p.m.
Sep 3, '07
The UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a non-binding "advisory declaration."
The Geneva Conventions, however, are treaties to which the US is a signatory. That means that they carry the full force of law and are legally binding. (Hence the use of the Geneva Conventions in the Hamdan case.)
Big difference between an "advisory declaration" and a formal treaty that the US has signed on to.
Now if we can only get the US to actually adhere to internationally agreements and law... (or even pay our UN dues...)
Sep 6, '07
There's a lot of happy talk about togetherness on this site. Here's my wager: Novick will soon see he isn't going to win, and he will eventually go negative on Merkley -- publically and in his advertising. Alternatively, he will swift-boat Merkley with negative stuff and disclaim responsibility.
It's like Gene McCarthy & Bobbie Kennedy, or Peter DeFazio and Ron Wyden. The purist will attack the winning pragmatist, despite the fact that their political views do not differ much at all, or at least not in many significant ways.
Novick is like Dr. Strangelove. He can't hold that arm down, the left hook I mean.
Anyone willing to take such a wager?
Sep 6, '07
Ron, I would like to believe Steve is smarter than that. If Steve is as wise as he is intelligent, he'll be like Eugene McCarthy, inspire young people to become politically active, and actually discuss issues.
I became a Eugene McCarthy college student because of someone in one of my college classes. If Steve is smart, he will tell his most energetic followers that nothing wins a primary like person to person campaigning with supporters telling those they know why they are supporting their candidate (see DeFazio in 1986, Hart in 1984, for instance) and that nothing can not only lose a primary but create bitterness that lasts for many years like a brainless attack of the swift boat variety (see AuCoin in 1992).
Steve has proven his intelligence over the years. But now that he is the candidate and not behind the scenes, what kind of campaign decisions will he make?
I really admired the 2nd Cong. District candidates in 2006. I vote for people who are positive, specific, and common sense. I once changed my vote from the candidate I thought was better qualified to the candidate who I'd known for years but was my second choice after that 2nd choice candidate had been attacked by my original choice.
Studies have shown that when a known attacks an unknown, or when the goal is to drive down turnout, sometimes there is a short term gain in going negative. Mention the name Terry Kay to lots of people living in Salem and discover how many people are still angry about the unsuccessful attacks Kay made in a 1990 race against an incumbent. A local candidate for Mayor tried similar tactics and not only lost the mayoral race but as a member of city council lost a favorable council majority to people supporting the incumbent mayor.
Oregon was Ground Zero for the Swifties (remember the investigation when it turned out Al French had used hearsay in his deposition for the Swifty ad, and the veterans living in Oregon who protested the Swifties?). Oregon went for Kerry, so in what way did that attack "work" here?