Factoid of the Day

Jeff Alworth

According to various media outlets, Barack Obama leads Hillary Clinton by about 140 pledged delegates.  Using this handy delegate counter, I ran the math.  If Hillary manages to beat Obama in the next 16 contests* by ten points in each (55%-45%), she'll make up ... 140 delegates. 

Too tall an order?

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*In chronological order: Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont, Wyoming, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Guam, Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Montana, South Dakota, Puerto Rico.

  • Bill R. (unverified)
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    No chance. However, your numbers are wrong. I believe it's more like 58% according to news outlets. And in Texas because of the waiting of districts, Obama can still lose in pop. vote and win the most delegates. So that puts it even higher. Hillary is toast, so she's now pushing the meme that she can still win with the supers. Although it looks to me like the party supers are not willing to go over the cliff with her.

  • (Show?)

    I don't doubt my numbers are wrong--but I don't think anyone actually has the numbers. Texas' bizarre system requires advanced degrees in logic. You should fiddle around with that excel sheet I link to--it's fun to see how they shake out. And you begin to see the brutal reality of proportional delegates for someone who's fallen behind.

  • Opionated (unverified)
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    Jeff, I actually saw even higher % floating around in the media, but it was by state including a 70-30 for PA. Does every state split the same way? An informal poll of visitors on my blog shows Obama at 70 percent. Majority of the visitors are from Oregon.

    So I agree, it will be a tall order for her to win all 16 contents at 55-45, unless she just stomps him in TX and OH and starts a new wave. And stranger things can happen. Best to observe, reflect and continually strive for the result you want and believe in. I hope she doesn't give up the fight!

    Check out this interesting piece on Huffington Post of a Chris Mathews Hardball segment from last night.

    Peace Out!

  • Matthew Sutton (unverified)
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    I said the same thing after the Potomac Primaries, and I'll say it again. Its time for Democrats to pull together in support of Barack as the nominee. Hillary's negative attack strategy is only giving ammunition to John McCain.

    America has clearly rejected the negative politics and has opted for something different. Barack has won 25 of the contests so far to Hillary's 11, including 10 of the last 10. Bill Clinton conceded today that if Hillary doesn't win Texas AND Ohio, she is done. According to the Reuters poll out today I saw on Drudge, he is now up 14 points, yes 14 points, in the National polls. Barack is approaching 1 million donors to his campaign--none of which are federal lobbyists or PACs--and he is outspending Hillary in TV ads in the next States by more than 2 to 1.

    Let's shake hands, lick our wounds, and move on.

  • mrfearless47 (unverified)
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    If I see the word "meme" one more time on this blog I'm going to barf. There seems to be a complete lack of linguistic originality. I counted one commenter in another recent thread who use the word three times in a 10 line comment. Can you say "overused", "hackneyed", "unoriginal", "misused about half the time"?

  • (Show?)

    When we went home after Super-Tuesday, my wife didn't know who was going to win. I told her then, "It's Obama's to lose".

    Hillary is hanging in right now hoping that Barak makes some sort of horrible rhetorical blunder. Not likely for a master orator.

  • (Show?)

    Sure, anything could happen, but at this point I don't see Hillary catching up with Obama on pledged delegates. With some polls showing the two candidates in a statistical dead heat in Texas.

    Some of the counties with high Dem turnout in the past have large populations of college students and African Americans, populations that are turning out well for Obama.

    What will be interesting are those communities that are Dem, but have large populations of racists. My experience with these communities, having lived in one for 22 years, is that they dislike African Americans, but they hate the Clintons. It may be we see these communities with lower turnouts, or with higher than normal Republican turnouts (in Texas you declare your party when you sign in to get your ballot).

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    I think Huckabee has overplayed his hand at this point, and probably blown what chance he ever had at the VP spot, as well as any future as a politician of national stature.

    Sadly, Clinton is on the verge of doing the same thing, especially if she goes negative now--the only damage she'll do at this point is to the party. She has no chance of winning pledged delegates or supers, but seems to be the only one who hasn't done the math.

    It's telling that what people least like about her--her "win at any cost" reputation--is what she's now apparently falling back on with the negative ads and attack-by-proxy groups.

    The time for her to concede with dignity is rapidly passing.

  • backbeat12 (unverified)
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    She's toast. No matter how hard she tries to scrape off the burned part, little bits of icky keep sticking in the bread. Hopefully she won't really follow through on this rovian plan to bash BO as a potential commander in chief.

  • Bill R. (unverified)
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    HRC has created her so-called "delegate hub" a web site where she humiliates the Democratic party with her insistence she will win the race with supers, despite the real state of the race.

    The state of the race: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/18120/6999/946/460766 1. Obama leads by 150 pledged delegates.

    1. Obama has won 25 of 36 contests.

    2. Obama is leading the popular vote by more than one million.

    3. Obama has won 51% of all votes cast -- Hillary, just 46%.

    4. We are now more than two-thirds of the way through the primary and caucus calendar, in terms of delegates awarded.

    5. The magic number of pledged delegates needed to secure a majority is 1,627. After that, the only way a candidate could win is by overturning the judgment of voters with the help of superdelegates.

    6. Obama is nearly three-quarters of the way towards hitting the magic number. Hillary is just over three-fifths.

    7. Obama must win 44% of the remaining delegates to hit the magic number. Hillary must win 58%.

    8. Hillary has won at least 58% of the vote in just two states -- Arkansas and New York. Obama has done so seventeen times, and seven of those wins came in primaries.

    9. Although Hillary complains that the pledged delegate system favors Obama, the truth is that overall the delegate allocation system is benefiting her. (In February, although Clinton has won just 47.2% of the popular vote in primary states, she won 49.8% of the delegates awarded in those states, closing the overall gap by 50 delegates making the gap 50 delegates smaller than it would have otherwise been.)

    10. Barack Obama has won a higher percentage of the vote in Democratic primaries than John McCain has in Republican primaries, including last night in Wisconsin, when Obama won 58% and McCain won 55%.

    (For those who are phobic about the word "meme," go get therapy, or have a stroke about it, doesn't make any difference to me. It's a perfectly good word.)

  • (Show?)

    If I see the word "meme" one more time on this blog I'm going to barf.

    The meme meme!

  • joel (unverified)
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    The Hillary Clinton delegate hub includes this item (with my emphasis):

    FACT: Florida and Michigan should count, both in the interest of fundamental fairness and honoring the spirit of the Democrats' 50-state strategy.

    BWAHAHAHA!!!

  • helys (unverified)
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    I am concerned about Michigan and Florida. Because Clinton won the -- despite the rules she did win them -- she has some moral right to claim that she has more popular support than the results acknowledge and should have more delegates.

    I'm an Obama supporter and also don't think Florida and Michigan should get away with breaking the rules, but I still think it is problematic to disenfranchise all those people completely.

    I know the other Dems did not campaign there and she had a clear advantage there because of history and the way the race was going at that time.

    Yet I would guess Florida at least would vote the same way again -- the age factor. Anyone else wondering whether this will come up more seriously?

    Anyway I can understand why Clinton supporters feel she should stay in and believe she should take all the supers she can get.

    Obama is really doing great though and it's almost too exciting to believe. Quote from a 10-year old Portland girl: "If I had three wishes I would wish for world peace and for a solution to global warming and for Barack Obama to be prsident."

  • Bill Bodden (unverified)
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    Check out this interesting piece on Huffington Post of a Chris Mathews Hardball segment from last night.

    Opinionated keeps trying to use this clip, presumably to put Obama down. It was embarrassing to the senator from Texas, but it should have had no reflection on Obama. Besides it wasn't as bad as some people would like to make it out to be. For those who missed my earlier comebacks, check Media Matters and search for "Chris Matthews" to learn how often Motormouth has demonstrated his own incompetence. Note the spelling of the windbag's last name. Opinionated has written it three times and still can't get it right.

  • Bill R. (unverified)
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    Here's a new factoid in the equation: NY Times has a breaking story about John McCain's possibly improper relationship with a female lobbyist. This could shake things up on the Republican side. Maybe Mitt or Huck are back in it after all.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

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    Thanks, Bill. The McCain story has its own post now.

  • Math Teacher (unverified)
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    I don't buy that spreadsheet's math for a minute. It makes the totally bogus assumption that delegates are meted out proportionally to the popular vote.

    In Texas particularly, the popular vote only accounts for 65% of the pledged delegates, and even those are weighted to give extra delegates to extra-blue (Obama-friendly) areas of the state. To get 55% of the delegates in Texas, Hillary will have to win by a far bigger margin than 10%.

    The story isn't quite as bad for her in other states, but as we saw in Nevada already, Obama's ground operation is far better at targeting the precincts that will give him a delegate edge, even if they tie the popular vote.

    Clinton's campaign just wasn't prepared to fight past SupercalifragilisticexpialiTuesday, and they've been playing catchup on the ground since then. Texas' bizarre rules came as a surprise to the top of her campaign, while Obama's troops have been organizing precincts and explaining it to supporters for weeks. If that's indicative of her ground operation in other states, she'll not only need to run the table to make up the missing delegates, she'll need to do it with the same margins that Obama has been seeing all this month.

  • (Show?)

    Math Teacher:

    Yea, there was an article about Hillary's people being shocked earlier this month when they learned how things work in Texas. They act as if the process had changed recently, when in reality those have been the rules for quite some time. I worked the polls for the first time in a presidential race in 1992 (the first time my parents had voted in a general election in my lifetime). I attended the caucus that night with my mom. The following election, 1996, I was 18 and had the chance to vote for myself. So not only did I get to work the polls for my candidates, but I got to participate in the caucus and was elected secretary. In 2000, I went again and was chair of my caucus.

    I think part of the reason why they allocate delegates the way they do (using previous election turnouts) is that there is a big problem with Republicans trying to throw things off in primary elections. Since you don't have to register with a Party, you can vote with a party different than your own on primary day. This meant we had a lot of far right wingers voting in the primary when it was obvious who their candidate would be. But since delegates are allocated according to previous Dem turnout in major elections, it takes a lot more than a few conservatives to throw off the delegate allocation.

    I bet turnout at the caucuses will be a lot better than when I used to go. In '92, '96, and '00 there wasn't that much of a contest on who the candidate would be - so most of the people attending either had a resolution they wanted to pass or wanted to be a delegate.

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    Jenni, Thank you for explaining the connection to the previous election for who can vote. I wondered how they controlled the possibility of abuse there.

  • Anonymous (unverified)
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    If, if, if. And if she had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

    The time is now, or at least soon, to wave buh-bye to the most vindictive, negative, paranoid, grudge-nurturing major politician since Nixon.

    I'll miss her. A little.

  • Jamais Vu (unverified)
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    I am concerned about Michigan and Florida. Because Clinton won the -- despite the rules she did win them -- she has some moral right to claim that she has more popular support than the results acknowledge and should have more delegates.

    Rubbish. She has no such "moral right." She had no reason to put her name on the ballot in Michigan other than to game the system. The attempt shows very bad judgment from someone who claims to be interested in effectively governing, not merely in winning (see: Bush, Florida, 2000, miserable failure).

    If Clinton pulls the upset of the century and gets the nomination by appeals to voters, fine. But giving it to her by counting the votes from Michigan and Florida is the one thing that will keep Democrats home in November.

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    SupercalifragilisticexpialiTuesday

    Yes, that's it!

  • dale (unverified)
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    There's a wonderful site -- by someone who understands both numbers (he's a distinguished computer scientist) and American politics, called electoral-vote.com; that's where I follow the numbers.

    I disagree with most of your commenters on two things. One, in politics, it ain't over til it's over. There's a lot of time before the convention. All kinds of things could happen.

    Second -- I don't buy the argument that the close race and infighting are bad for the party. I think it's good for us. It's getting excitement going and it's getting the word out about both candidates. I think they're both excellent in their way, and my opinion of both has gone up in the course of this campaign. The flack Obama's getting from Clinton is child's play compared to what's going to come down in the general election, and the more experience Obama's & his people get in dealing with it, the better.

    I agree about your assessment of the probabilities-- I think Clinton has maybe a 5% chance at this point. And I'm rooting for Obama; but I see no reason for Clinton to quit. If she loses Texas and Ohio, that's the time for her to quit, and I imagine that then she will.

    I think we all could stand to practice a little more generosity. If we can't be kind to our own, who can we be kind to?

  • (Show?)

    Jeff,

    A tall but not impossible order.

    The biggest hurdle that has arisen, in my opinion, is the youth Hispanic vote in Texas. Just like this race has exposed a divide between older, established African American leaders and their mass following (esp. young African Americans), Obama exposed another cleavage in the Latino community.

    This may be on full display in Texas, which, if the numbers I've seen are correct, has a much higher percentage of younger (and second generation) Latinos than previous primary states. Obama has done well in this segment.

    Still, Texas has a long and storied tradition of hardball machine-like politics, and Clinton should do well in this setting. Similarly, Ohio is a rock for working class union members, a group among, at least two weeks ago, we'd think she'd do well.

    The size of the Obama ground force, and his large advantage in money, should be enough to make up the difference. But I'm far from saying Clinton is "toast". I'd give her about a 25% odds at this point. She must win both OH and TX decisively--10% or more--or the superdelegates will begin to peel off and she's out.

    BTW Rant=ON Steve Maurer STOP WRITING "BARAK". Rant=OFF.

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    Dale, you make a point that has passed the shadowy part of my mind, in that netherworld between consciousness and ... well, whatever's out there. It is a good thing that we have these two candidates in the race right now. The fact that so many voters are having a say in the process keeps energy very high and keeps the whole affair in the family. Had we gone quickly to the nominee following SC, say, the past month would have been the start of the poisonous general contest, which would have depressed energy.

    That's all the more so because constituency after constituency is being drawn into the party. Young and first-time voters are being wooed; blacks first and now Latinos; there's even some suggestion that it's blue-collar whites who will be next (the NASCAR vote as Dem demographic--wonderful).

    So yeah, it's great. There's a point of vanishing returns, and I think it falls on March 5 if Obama does well, but we're not there yet.

    Paul, fascinating comment on the young v old Latino vote. I do wonder if you're overestimating Hillary's ability to control machine politics--so far, that's exactly the area the old Chicago community organizer has outgamed her. (I think he may have been paying attention to Harold Washington back in the day.)

    My view is that Hillary's chance is somewhere between the 5% and 25% you and Dale cite, but not great. I think the biggest disadvantage now is time. Obama has the luxury of stumping for two weeks, and that has really helped him in the past.

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    I trust Chuck Todd, who really is some kind of delegate wizard it seems. His analysis during the WI/HI primary was that she would need upwards of 65% of the delegates in the states she could win (TX, OH, PA, WV, RI, KY). Todd gave Obama theoretical wins in several smaller states (WY, ND, OR, et al), but basically penciled the delegates out equally there, which seems properly conservative. In fact, he repeated a couple times these were conservative estimates that attempted to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt in a number of sitautions. 65%. Not. Gonna. Happen. If I were to predict right now, she's not even going to get the most delegates out of Texas, and that will kill her campaign.

    "I bet turnout at the [TX] caucuses will be a lot better than when I used to go."

    A good bet, it seems:

    Turnout on the first day of early voting was up all across Texas, according to initial numbers from the Secretary of State’s office. But Houston and Dallas were off the charts — the numbers show a 10-fold increase over 2004. In Harris County four years ago, only 728 people showed up for the Democratic primary on the first day of early voting. Yesterday it was 9,243.

    In Dallas, the first-day turnout jumped from 913 in 2004 to 8,615 yesterday. That would seem good news for Obama. Other urban counties such as Travis (Austin) and Bexar (San Antonio) showed six-fold increases. In El Paso, it tripled.

    Turnout was up too in the Rio Grande Valley, an expected Clinton stronghold, but the increase wasn’t as dramatic. In Hidalgo County, the number of voters rose from 3,858 (2004) to 5,793 (2008).

    10fold!!!

  • (Show?)

    Higher turnout in the primary portion doesn't necessarily mean higher turnout in the caucus portion. A lot of people don't know about the caucus, and at the caucuses I attended, the only early voters there were those of us who worked various sites and voted early so we could campaign all day.

    And I think early voting has really caught on more now than it had a few years ago.

    However, I think the Obama campaign volunteers have been doing a good job of informing people about the caucuses and their importance for some time now. Unlike the Clinton campaign, which apparently just found out about all of this recently (so I don't know how much work they've been able to do on that front).

    So hopefully all this added coverage, talking about the caucuses, etc., will increase the number of people participating in the caucuses there. And that's a good thing, as the people will be more likely to then go to the county convention and maybe even the state convention. All of this could mean a potential rebirth of the Texas Democratic Party if they play things right, which I certainly hope they do.

    Personally, I'd have a volunteer at every caucus I possibly could to get information into people's hands about that county's dem party, them signed up on mailing and e-mail lists, etc. And I'd do the same at any early voting locations I possibly could, you just have to make sure you stay a certain number of feet away. Because winning thus year won't just be about who wins the primary. It will also be about activating Dems through the parties, building our parties, etc. so that we win the White House, more seats in the U.S. House and U.S. Senate, etc. And one of those U.S. Senate seats we can win is in Texas - plus they have to defend Lampson's seat.

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    I heard he had 175,000 volunteers signed up in Texas.

    Interesting thing about the Obama campaign is that this is probably the first "internet" presidential campaign. Dean laid the groundwork, to be sure, but it is Obama who has been able to use small donations to completely change the financial picture AND used it to create a grassroots volunteer organization that is overwhelming a centralized party leader based system.

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    Well this comment got rejected before, but here's the link to Iowa Electronic Markets latest quotes on the nomination. They have Clinton as a long shot at this point.

    http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/quotes/Nomination08_quotes.html

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