If I lived in Florida I'd be pretty tired of not getting my vote counted as a Democrat. To me it just seems so unfair to the voters who aren't part of the decision making folks in the party.

And Kari, STOP BURYING THREADS!!!! Haha, just kidding. Couldn't pass that one up.

Nice of you to join us from the peanut gallery, Katy. I see you're still contribute anything of substance. Anytime you wish to join in with intelligible points, you're welcome to.

unable to*

John, I get what you're saying but I guess that's my point; it doesn't seem right that the voters are punished for what the party did. Especially in Florida, if I lived their I'd think I was losing my mind!

;) Way to get in there.

This whole post is based on a false premise. A mail-in ballot election is illegal under Florida law. See item 3, 2a. Bill R.

http://thepage.time.com/florida-election-law-on-mail-ballot-elections/

Florida Election Law on Mail Ballot Elections

101.6102 Mail ballot elections; limitations.–

(1)(a) An election may be conducted by mail ballot if:

1. The election is a referendum election at which all or a portion of the qualified electors of one of the following subdivisions of government are the only electors eligible to vote:

a. Counties;

b. Cities;

c. School districts covering no more than one county; or

d. Special districts;

1. The governing body responsible for calling the election and the supervisor of elections responsible for the conduct of the election authorize the use of mail ballots for the election; and

2. The Secretary of State approves a written plan for the conduct of the election, which shall include a written timetable for the conduct of the election, submitted by the supervisor of elections.

(b) In addition, an annexation referendum which includes only qualified electors of one county may also be voted on by mail ballot election.

(2) The following elections may not be conducted by mail ballot:

(a) An election at which any candidate is nominated, elected, retained, or recalled; or

Over at Team Obama, David Axelrod checked his option, saying it took Oregon a decade to perfect vote-by-mail, and implying by omission that the Florida Democratic Party couldn't possibly get it right in less than a month.

I don't know what Axelord meant by this. Vote-by-mail is pretty simple for a primary, at least in a state like OR where there is party registration (Many states like WA and MI have nor party reg.) You just mail the ballots to all registered Dems. The question is, would FL's VBM effort be state funded/monitored like ours, or a party funded?

I believe that OR first used VBM in '81 for a local election. The first time it was used for a state wide partisan election was for the special U.S. Senate race, primary '95/general '96 when Wyden beat Smith.

That proved to be so popular that most OR voters became permanent absentees, and we voted for a total VBM in 2000 (I think that was the year)

It has worked well, boosted turnout, and probably helped Democrats, at least marginally. I wish that more states would switch to VBM, and I am thrilled that this discussion about FL will generate debate about the issue.

It doesn't just suck though, it means their vote doesn't count. Again. And I think that's a pretty big deal.

Their votes do count. Their delegates do not. That was a restriction brought on by choice, too. The state legislature knew what the consequences would be: 1/2 representation for Republicans and 0 representation for Democrats. It was a suicidal move on their part that needn't be repaired under the guise of "giving everyone the chance to make their vote heard." They had that chance, but their politicians blew it for them.

Their delegates don't get seated but their votes count? I honestly don't understand how that works. I understand the argument but I just don't see how we leave the voters of Florida out in this historic election.

While a mail in ballot may be illegal under Florida law can't you consider a re-vote a Democratic Party function that's only subject to the party rules?

It seems that the only way to redo these primaries in a relatively low-cost way would be by holding caucuses, which Team Clinton will never accept. Kinda hard to see how a credentials fight at the convention can be avoided.

Caucuses, VBM - whatever. It just doesn't sit well to me to say it's not fair but "it's the right thing to do." Really? There has to be a way to resolve this. I'm a Clinton (and Obama) supporter and if a a caucus is the answer then I really feel like it needs to be done.

Florida had 7 years to fix their stone age vote recording and tabulation process and it's still broken.

I doubt Florida election officers could learn how to properly floss their teeth in a month. Forget about a statewide vote by mail campaign. If it does happen, you can bet the fraud allegations will be flying fast and furious at every assisted living center in the state.

Michigan might be able to pull it off, but there is little fairness in a "do over" when only one of the candidates was actively campaigning there in the past.

Florida and Michigan chose to disenfranchise their electors when they decide to move their primary dates. Democrats ought to be pissed, but not at Obama, the Supreme Court, or Howard Dean. They anger should be directed at State Democratic Party leaders.

Now the Superdelegates get to choose Hillary, and John McCain will win by a larger delegate count than Bush won in 2004.

Bonus: you can't whine about how Bush/Rove/Cheney stole the election. This reminds me of the ol' P.J. O'Rourke evocation (of some kind of drug high): "You'd have to watch the entire Mexican Air Force crashing into a liquid petroleum storage facility to match this kind of thrill."

Yup, agreed Nick. Florida screwed the rest of the country. But still, the voters shouldn't be punished. It's too important an election.

Everyone went into this year's nominating contest with a shared understanding of the rules to win the Democratic nomination. But it's been frankly unnerving to watch the Clinton campaign continue to put their interests above the best interests of winning back the White House. I think that's what they're doing on several levels. And I say that as someone's who's very sensitive to Florida Democrats' perspective, with both my dad and step-mom very active in politics down there.

I'm certainly open to a new vote; that's a lot more reasonable than what the Clinton folks floated earlier: seating the Michigan and Florida delegates as-is, despite the fact that Obama wasn't even on the Michigan ballot. Can you imagine having the nomination decided by a contest with only one candidate on the ballot? That's not just a ticket to losing in November, that's a recipe for rioting in the streets.

I don't know why I keep saying this when nobody will pay attention. The State of Florida has no say in the conduct of a Democratic Primary election. The candidates have no say in the conduct of a Democratic Primary election. Once DNC rules are abided by, the State Democratic Party has the say. This is a Democratic Primary, not an election. If the State says we'll finance this if you do xyz and the Party agrees, then the Party set the rules.

John Duggan run for the FL State Central Committee and be a part of the revolution that destroys those party hacks. At any time the Florida State Democratic Party could have held a valid delegate selection process. At any time post Feb 5.

As for vote by mail, the problem is money and the fact that the signatures aren't in a scanning system. It would be hand verification and hand count. Elections are expensive which is one reason for caucuses.

Hillary's statements are destructive of the Democratic Party, particularly the DNC. Since Terry McAuliff is such a big dog in her campaign and they hate what Dean has done, it isn't a surprise is it? The McAuliff model was top down big money, the antithesis to the Dean model. His was a big loser for everybody except the Clintons, guess which one I like. Guess who I don't like?

Bottom line: Obama, Edwards, (who I originally supported) chose not to put their names on Michigan and Florida's ballots. Clinton did.

Just do a re-do. VBM or whatever. Everybody gets to vote, everybody gets counted.

I think the comment made by Mr. Burr; "...it's been frankly unnerving to watch the Clinton campaign continue to put their interests above the best interests of winning back the White House. I think that's what they're doing on several levels." is self-serving.

Sorry Charlie. You're usually better than that and you're disappointing me.

One can just as easily make the argument that Obama's camp is "...continuing to put their interests above the best interests of winning back the White House. I think that's what they are doing on several levels." Blah, blah, blah.

Nonsense lonnie G You cannot make the case that Obama is using Republican tactics nor that he is going after the DNC and using it as a whipping boy. That can factually be said of Clinton.

Did she outright lie about FL & MI, no not quite, she said on national media "I will do everthing in my power to see these delegations seated before the nomination," her out being that she has exactly no power to do squat. She gets to run in them, not run them. People hear exactly what she wants them to hear, but not something factual. Oh hell, I'm wasting my time.

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It's not going to happen, not in Fl. at least. Here's the latest. The only way to change Fl. is intervention by the courts and they won't. Fl. House Dems won't support the do-over.

So all of this discussion is blowing smoke. Right now there is only one solution for Fl. and MI. splitting the delegates 50 -50 if they are to be seated. McAuliffe, Clinton's campaign consultant in 2003, as DNC chair warned the Fl Dems not to move up the primary or they would lose their delegates.So this is not something new. Fl. violated the rules, knew the consequences and now they can't undo it. At this point a Fl. do-over is not going to change anything anyway.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/house_dems_in_florida_no_redo.php House Dems in Florida: No Re-Do

11 Mar 2008 10:31 pm

Moments ago, Democrats representing Florida in Congress released this joint statement, effectively putting the kibosh on a mail-in re-do primary:

"We are committed to working with the DNC, the Florida State Democratic party, our Democratic leaders in Florida, and our two candidates to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated. Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.”

Even if the candidates agree, there will be no expedited solution unless the courts somehow intervene, which, given a series of federal court rulings last year, is unlikely.

If there really were a do-over, maybe the Clintons could send Geraldine Ferraro down there, and win over all the racist vote, all those whites who resent it because black get such a free ride. Combine that with the Rush Limbaugh/Bill Clinton alliance for Hillary and you get Repub cross-over for Clinton. Could be a landslide! Rush Limbaugh and raving Geraldine save the day for Hillary.

PLEASE read the website linked at the previous posting! It explains the practical, technical issues very thoroughly. We're not talking about walking up and down the block to poll your neighbors about the best date for a block party....

Fortunately, Florida does NOT allow Oregon drivers licenses as valid ID to obtain state ID and vote. Way ahead of Oregon there....

Do it anyhow John, people grow into roles if their intellect is up to it, the rest is habit. What they call the Co Party is immaterial, and with this mess it shouldn't be too hard to round up enough disaffected people to make the changes.

This is one of the weaknesses of having 0.5% of the Democratic electorate active, but it is also the door to making change. It simply does not require huge numbers. The only way anybody as incompetent as FL State Party could exist is because nobody gave a damn that they were pathetic. The same falls on MI.

As a former supporter of John Edwards I was leaning towards Clinton but every time I hear that "the vote in Michigan or Florida should be honored" by her campaign I want to scream.

If Hillary Clinton is that disrespectful of what she agreed to than I can't trust her as President.

For God's sake, her and Kuncinich were the ONLY names on the Michigan ballot and if you wrote in a candidate your ballot was null and void.

If Florida, they ALL agreed not to campaign there.

What is her word worth if she can't be trusted on this?

Regardless of the method (VBM, caucus, normal primary, Thunder Dome, etc.), I wonder how they will handle cross-over voting. Michigan is an open primary, and it is my understanding that Florida has an open primary when if only one party is voting. I do not know the ins and outs of Florida election law, but it seems like this re-vote could maybe be construed as a situation where an open primary applies. If there is an open election in Florida, and regardless in the case of Michigan, will they allow people who voted in the Republican primary to vote in this new Democratic election, or only people who voted in the Democratic Primary or did not vote? Ether answer has merits, but the choice could have a significant impact on who wins.

"They’re talking about a re-vote primary where people would mail in their ballots. That’s a great idea, combine the reliability of the people in Florida who count the ballots with the efficiency of the Post Office. What could go wrong there?" (Jay Leno)

Kari, I totally agree that a re-vote is the only fair way to handle the situation and I'm all in favor of that - did I say somewhere that I wasn't? If I did (and I'm WAY too lazy to read back through these comments)I mis-wrote. BTW, didn't Obama have a media ad blitz in Florida just before the Florida primary? Hmm...

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