A Victory Garden for a new century

Leslie Carlson

180px-Victory-garden As most of us who took high school history know, First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt was instrumental in the Victory Garden effort during World War II. Roosevelt led by example, tilling up part of the White House grounds to grow fruits and vegetables for her table. 

The Victory Garden campaign was remarkably successful. First, it reduced pressure on the food supply due to the war, producing about 40 percent of all the produce consumed in the entire country during the war years. Second, it allowed Americans to be joined in common purpose and shared sacrifice, helping boost morale among civilians during a long and difficult war. 

This week, Michelle Obama announced that she will put in the first garden at the White House since those dark war years, and I couldn't be more excited by the idea. Yes, it's a symbolic gesture, as no one expects that the Obamas will be able to grow the majority of their food (although if they tilled up all the grounds, that just might be possible...)

In speaking about her garden plans, Michelle Obama has focused mostly on the health effects of eating more fresh fruits and produce, and these are indeed important. At a time when less than 10 percent of children eat the two to three servings of vegetables and fruits recommended for growing bodies, research shows that time spent growing and tending a garden increases a child's willingness to taste--and eat--what they grow.

Anecdotal evidence of this comes from my own family. I was shocked last summer to watch my finicky children, who regularly turned up their noses at store-bought produce, pick and eat peas and cucumbers in our kitchen garden and eat them immediately, dirt and all. 

Almost more exciting to me, however, is the chance that the White House garden will be an opportunity to discuss our industrial food system and create some more awareness of how far food actually travels to get to one's plate. I'm hoping that this national discussion, which has been aided so successfully by national advocates like Alice Waters and Michael Pollan, will filter down to neighborhoods and communities across Oregon. I'd love to see local governments create food security plans and outreach efforts designed to help us all become backyard farmers, if we so desire.

And last, I look forward to a time when more people in this great country have a deeper connection to seeds and dirt and weather and bugs and all the rest of the natural world that is visible in the microcosm of a kitchen garden. Maybe, just maybe, our little gardens--and Michelle's slightly larger one--will help us see our way toward a new, more gentle way of living on the planet.

Comments

  • Jim H (unverified)
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    This is awesome. Now they just need to put in a chicken coop...

  • The Itaxa (unverified)
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    With the price of fossil fuels being unstable, population growth, and water resource availability issues, a perfect storm, in only a few years, could make it more than "largely a symbolic gesture"!

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    I hope they use organic fertilizer rather than petro-based fertilizer.

  • Zarathustra (unverified)
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    Posted by: Kevin | Mar 20, 2009 2:13:31 PM

    I hope they use organic fertilizer rather than petro-based fertilizer.

    That's something you count count on the PPB for. They distribute great quality, composted horse sh*t to the community gardens. Expand the program. We know you're full of it!

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    Thanks, Leslie!

    Promoting gardens is also about more for children than the food that is harvested...involving children in the hands-on gardening effort builds awareness of natural processes...a far better education than simply reading about how plants grow. It's a continuous science experiment, all summer long.

    It also provides an engrossing activity for kids to be outside...there are plenty of stories of the nature deficit for kids, and gardening -- digging in the soil, pushing seeds down, pulling up weeds -- all ignite kid's imaginations and provides a great way for them to be outside for long periods of time.

  • Bob Tiernan (unverified)
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    Leslie Carlson:

    The Victory Garden campaign was remarkably successful. First, it reduced pressure on the food supply due to the war

    Bob T:

    Sure, if the Feds let you alone. Recall that a midwest farmer grew wheat for his own family's consumption and the New Dealers squashed his for it - see Wickard v. Filburn (1942). You may not realize it, but thanks to New Deal views, your own tiny tomato plant and few rows of pease "affect" Interstate Commerce, and can be regulated by buraucrats in Washington if they want to.

    Leslie Carlson:

    This week, Michelle Obama announced that she will put in the first garden at the White House since those dark war years

    Bob T:

    Yes, such symbolic examples have benefits. But I wonder if President Obama will show us some sacrifice by giving up his $100 per pound steak dinners and buy the $6.00 per pound stuff regular people eat. (I don't even eat that.)

    By the way, anyone out there working on a progressive effort to refer the stadium corporate welfare deal to the voters? I guess not.

    Bob Tiernan Portland

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    I wish we had more room here at our apartment complex to garden. Abby and I both love to be out working with plants, but we're fairly limited in what we can grow.

  • redrockraven (unverified)
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    This is setting a great example of family values. It is a sign that a family with children is living in the white house again. From the size of this garden, Michelle must be planning on lots of help from other family members.

    More people should plant gardens. There is always plenty of wildlife to see in a garden; from butterflies to dragonflies and hummingbirds. There is nothing better than fresh tomatoes, cucumbers, spinach or chard. Leave some room for some cantaloupe and summer crook neck also. My family members have planted a garden every year since WWII. There is nothing more All-American than planting a Victory Garden.

  • Polly Robbins (unverified)
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    I'm looking forward to a time when a good portion of my landscape clients are pining for front yard veggie gardens and suitable locations for their chicken coops. Add to that neighborhood blocks where people organize their resources of garden tools and power tools. Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Polly Robbins

  • The Libertarian Guy (unverified)
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    I have always loved the idea of the home garden and had one in most places I've lived, but Portland is the exception. Most of us have postage stamp size yards or live in these Stalingrad type apartments.

    Pack'em and Stack em'

    Ah the beauty of housing regulations.

  • alcatross (unverified)
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    redrockraven says: From the size of this garden, Michelle must be planning on lots of help from other family members.

    If by 'family members' you mean the 23 fifth graders from a local school who will do the planting now and the harvesting in the fall plus the White House grounds staff who will tend the garden in between. Otherwise it's likely more a two-day photo-op for Michelle, Malia, and Sasha.

    I'm not saying as a symbolic gesture it's a bad one - but let's do recognize it for what it is.

  • mp97303 (unverified)
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    alcatross

    Dude, your cynicism is depressing me. Light up and smile a bit more. Not every thing is an F'n photo op.

    (sorry for the rant, but gee whiz, cut them some slack)

  • Bill McDonald (unverified)
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    Michelle Obama is tremendous. We're very fortunate to have her as First Lady. I think the more America gets to know her, the more obvious this will become.

  • Vincent (unverified)
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    I have to agree with Alcatross. Does anyone really think anyone but hired help and "volunteers" are going to be spending time in this garden? It's a symbolic gesture, and not a bad one, but anyone who really thinks the Obamas are going to be out laboring in the dirt any time the cameras aren't around is fooling themselves.

  • Jim H (unverified)
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    I have always loved the idea of the home garden and had one in most places I've lived, but Portland is the exception. Most of us have postage stamp size yards or live in these Stalingrad type apartments.

    That's what bothers me every time I hear something about high-density neighborhoods. There's no yard! When my wife and I were looking for a new house it took forever to find one with a decent yard. High-density and open yardage does not mix.

    but anyone who really thinks the Obamas are going to be out laboring in the dirt any time the cameras aren't around is fooling themselves.

    aah, but if the cameras aren't there, how will you know?

  • Joanne Rigutto (unverified)
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    I wouldn't be surprised if the Obamas didn't work in the garden when the cameras aren't there.

    For people wanting to garden who are in appartments and those with yards that are very small, you can do yard sharing. There are all sorts of yard sharing groups and organizations springing up to enable people to garden who are lacking sufficient land.

    Hyperlocavore.com is a social networking website created to enable people to yardshare. While it has members from all over, there are a lot of people in Portland on there too.

    At www.yardsharing.org there are 14 offers of yards to share in Portland and one in Gresham. There are 9 requests for yards to share. This website is for yardsharing in Portland, and is part of a national network of yardsharing websites and organizations.

    www.yourbackyardfarmer.com is a company owned by two women who will set up gardens in people's yards and help tend them. This is great for people who would like to have a garden, but have on one to yardshare with, or who would rather not yardshare, and either don't have the time or experience to garden.

    I'm currently working on getting my small farm in Mulino up and running. Things in the ground, things coming up in the greenhouse. I will be working this year, to help build a local food network in my area in Mulino.

    The city of Molalla has a community garden program, and I wouldn't be surprised if a yard share group doesn't spring up there as well.

    Surprisingly, with all the land out here, and all the commercial ag, there are few gardens that can be seen from the highway. Harold and I went to dinner in Marquam last sunday, and I looked for dormant gardens. Between Mulino and Marquam, I counted 3 that were visible from the highway. Google Earth's sattelite images yields a few more, but not as many as one might think. It's not for a lack of land, there isn't anyone out here who is outside of a city who doesn't have acreage. I don't know why more people aren't gardening, except that we've all been conditioned to buy from the store. Gardening really doesn't take that much time, and out here most people are on well water, so it doesn't cost that much either.

  • alcatross (unverified)
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    mp97303 said: alcatross, Dude, your cynicism is depressing me. Light up and smile a bit more. Not every thing is an F'n photo op.

    eh... no - but it is a photo-op when you invite the White House press corps in to report and snap pictures/video.

    I didn't make that stuff up about the fifth graders and grounds staff, I've heard/read it in several news accounts. It's sad to say but in today's world, there would likely be security concerns with having the First Lady and Children crawling around in a garden out on the White House lawn every day.

    I said I didn't think it was a necessarily bad example. We just shouldn't harbor any bucolic visions of Ma and Pa Obama in a new 'American Gothic' for the 21st century.

    Remember that in the 1940s, over 40% of the population was still rural - less than 20% are rural today. Not saying some urban dwellers couldn't have 'victory gardens' - but many (like Jenny above) can't. Also keep in mind that in the majority of families today, both parents work full-time. That wasn't so much the case back in the 1940s when there was a higher % of 'stay-at-home' mothers with more time to help with the routine daily gardening tasks.

  • alcatross (unverified)
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    Bill McDonald said: We're very fortunate to have her as First Lady. I think the more America gets to know her, the more obvious this will become.

    May be true - but then, I suspect I've heard this at one time or another about every First Lady for the last 40 years. I know for sure I heard it about Hillary and Laura.

  • Jiang (unverified)
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    "Now your victory garden matters more than ever"? Reed College bulldozed mine (and 200 other peoples') so that their students didn't have to cross the street. The City did not help at the time, and has provided no expansion to take the overflow. Those folks, almost to a person, don't garden now.

    It's an illustration of how it can be completely successful- since 1915 in this case- but is trumped by the slightest "real world consideration". Like the children of gated communities' horror of "the other". Like the demographic change at Reed since they agreed to raise tuition to pacify the DEA. Like how Sam Adams sounds great trumping his total failure with Parks.

    Posted by: Joanne Rigutto | Mar 21, 2009 4:35:44 AM

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Obamas didn't work in the garden when the cameras aren't there.

    Talk about misplaced shame. Hope not.

    As to yards, patios and roofs work well. Lots of seniors have yards that are just a mowing chore. We need to start online cooperatives, of a few people with someone that doesn't want a yard full of grass anymore. Real farms need be given a credit for providing some tiny space. A 20' strip, running the length of one of their fields, would equal all the current community garden space. Hey Bernie Giusto, how 'bout paying some of your debt to society with some public garden space?

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    Holy crap there are some major cynics on here. I've always known that but sheesh. Of COURSE it was a photo-op. It was SUPPOSED to be. It's called using your clout to be a role model for others. It's part of being in the public eye and actually being aware of the responsibility that this carries and what one might be able to do with it. Every single person and every single group (including the progressives and activists who uliize this site) that has ever held an event, planned a march, scheduled a protest or any other thing you would like to add to the list, and then has notified the press and asked them to come, has done so in order to get that photo-op, that is all of a sudden some negative thing because the ex-Bubba in chief made it a dirty word. Don't even pretend to tell me that we are disappointed when the press actually shows up and covers it. We aren't supposed to be...and whether the President of the United States and the First Lady spend their waking hours toiling in that garden is immaterial (You telling me that you would turn down someone helping you in yours on those 60+ hour work weeks?), it's the idea of one and the example that they took responsibility for making, that counts.

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    Jiang's comments are bitter and uninformed about the end of the community gardens at Reed.

    The garden has to go because of the need for emergency vehicle access and the necessity of building an ADA compliant bridge across the canyon.

    The community garden at Reed, as historical photos clearly show, had expanded without permission from its original 1 acre to over 2 acres. Gardeners believed it was "their" land as Jiang claims even though Reed provided land, water, and brought in mulch for more than two decades.

    Jiang claims Reed is filled with the children of gated communities--false, more than 2/3 of Reed students are on financial aid--and that it has become less diverse recently--also false. The DEA comment is just weird.

    And Jiang, if you have some actual evidence that the gardeners are no longer gardening rather than an undirected screed, please provide it. My sense was most of those gardeners were nearby homeowners who chose to use a community garden rather than their own backyard.

  • billy (unverified)
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    Can someone explain to me how Metro's plan for Portland to be a "compact city" with "urban containment" will allow space for gardens?

    Or space for solar panels? Or space for wind mills?

    All Metro's seems to allow for is huge subsidies to developers go get them to build garbage condos that cost more than a real house on areal lot in places without Metro's regulations.

    B

  • rlw (unverified)
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    FUnny thing: when I heard of the Victory Garden, rather than go ugly inside, I mused with open curiousity as to whether indeed the Obamas may be feeling the dearth of dirt under their knees and time on their hands. The sanity of even being able to walk out thru the buzzing of their own flowers become now a bee patch is enormous. One hopes that outside of photo ops, one or both or all will find the time to stay connected to the earth and the quiet solace of soil turning in warmly in their fingers, the suffused and subtle driftscent of growing things quietly radiating energies. Let's go ahead and be hopeful for the entire world that these two find a way to stay connected to the earth that feeds us all, remembering that they too struggle to be human.

  • Bob Tiernan (unverified)
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    Jim H:

    That's what bothers me every time I hear something about high-density neighborhoods. There's no yard! When my wife and I were looking for a new house it took forever to find one with a decent yard.

    Bob T:

    But you're not suppose to be bothered with the work of a victory garden or a lawn -- you're supposed to shop at the subsidized Zupan's down the road. And soon you'll be able to take MAX to a baseball game and a soccer game back-to-back because more of this progressive corporate welfare was handed out to yet another millionaire so that this city can be just so wonderful.

    Bob Tiernan Portland

  • rlw (unverified)
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    Dear Bob:

    Non sequitur!

  • joel dan walls (unverified)
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    First of all, "billy", you screwed up your signature. Your actual initials are JK, short for Jim Kaarlock. Kind of obvious from your commentary about condos....

    Second, some rather interesting commentary about Mrs. Obama and the garden, in the context of the collective national fantasy about what the President's spouse is "supposed" to be doing with her life, here.

  • joel dan walls (unverified)
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    Regarding the sniping about land-use planning, one of the points of having things like urban growth boundaries is to protect fertile farmland close to metro areas. When food is produced near population centers, the cost of transporting it to market is, in principle at least, reduced. OK, of course I am aware that this commonsensical scheme gets undercut by globalization and imports of food. But that sort of global food distribution depends on continuing sources of cheap energy; I'm guessing in the long term view, stuff like cherries and grapes from Chile in the middle of the Northern Hemisphere winter are going to be a historical blip.

    I like the idea of buying my food from nearby producers when I can, especially at farmers' markets. I feel very fortunate to have one in my neighborhood.

    Tiernan's comments about buying groceries from Zupan's are silly, especially since Tiernan, with his typically dogmatic Libertarian schtick, would have a shit fit if anyone presumed to make judgment on his, Tiernan's, lifestyle and consumption choices.

  • billy (unverified)
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    joel dan walls . . . I'm guessing in the long term view, stuff like cherries and grapes from Chile in the middle of the Northern Hemisphere winter are going to be a historical blip. B: That is only your guess. To advocate forcing others to live a certain way because you have a guess is bordering on criminal. But I guess that is why your are a progressive.

    joel dan walls I like the idea of buying my food from nearby producers when I can, especially at farmers' markets. B: Good. Just quit trying to force others to live the way you want them to. You didn’t like it when GWB did it, did you?

    joel dan walls Tiernan's comments about buying groceries from Zupan's are silly B: But, yours are scary - telling others how to live because you have a guess. Sick actually.

    B

  • Jiang (unverified)
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    Paul G. shows why this can never work in this country of petty cretins. While some were holding daily meetings with Reed personnel (how can I be uniformed? delusional, psychotic, mistaken, but misinformed?), other gardeners decided that they could not do anything without having it go, officially, through Parks. To a person, they were current and former county, State, city and Metro personnel and it was like a cross between "Good Neighbors" and "Yes, Minister", except it wasn't funny. You know the role Bob T. plays on here? Why don't you MFers stop polluting every debate and just admit that all you care about it how anything would relate to your 'government is a career' entitlement.

    At the end of the day it has to do with culture and cultural fetishes. I don't care what percent get financial aid. We all know that the few connected bigots get disproportionate attention. The garden was in its final borders in 1946. I have witnesses. I'm sure they didn't have preppies walking their dogs in your plot that stop, let the dog take a dump on a head of lettuce, and when you ask what they are doing, simply ignore you and call campus security on a cell phone. In that case, after being sued for harassment, under oath, the dear young thing volunteered, "I had never spoken to a stranger outside our gated community without my parents being present".

    Yeah, ignore the DEA part. That's how they work. Act crazy, then if someone reports your activities, they sound crazy. The Rave Bill was crazy. Attaching it, after it failed umpteen times, to the Amber Alert bill, was crazy. Noone caring, after it was an outrage issue is crazy. Why don't we all do like you and just ignore the craziness. Fact. They now leave Renn-Faire alone. Fact. Tuition was raised at the same time. Fact. Political demographics among the student body have shifted way to the right, starting with that tuition increase. But it's crazy to notice that.

    Meanwhile, I haven't eaten a vegetable. I refuse. I accept that your interests own/run the world. At least be honest for once. Don't pretend to be having honest debate. Just say what you mean. "You don't think like us, you don't serve what we do, you offend us, go away". That I can understand and even honor.

    As stated in the post, most are motivated, now, by health. Those people tended to be like Paul G. Then there's those trying to cash in on a fad. Bottom line, the people that think in the core radical terms of the post, are thinking about cashing out. I would love to see the oft-discussed follow-on gardening/political blog. To a topic the shallow, unresponsive BO character of the discussion has undercut all these good posts, imhe.

    I too thank you for the answer. By my count this is the 28th time I have written that and you're the first to respond on any level. Mission accomplished. That is what I have been waiting for. Just that. Bye. (Do you realize how many years ago you could have been rid of me???)

  • Jiang (unverified)
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    JacKoff: ...bordering on criminal.

    is what we plan for your next run for public office, shite for rhetoric. Words suck. Direct action. JK.

    b

  • Jim H (unverified)
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    Bob T.

    because more of this progressive corporate welfare was handed out to yet another millionaire so that this city can be just so wonderful.

    huh? As opposed to conservative corporate welfare that goes to poor folks?

  • billy (unverified)
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    Jim H: huh? As opposed to conservative corporate welfare that goes to poor folks? B: Please tell us why you (and, seemingly, other progressives) are in favor of corporate welfare to Portland's millionaires?

    B

  • joel dan walls (unverified)
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    Dear billy AKA Jim Kaarlock: you are possibly delusional and in any case an intellectual fraud. Kindly tell me where in the world I advocated forcing anyone to adopt my lifestyle, my choices about where I buy my food, and so on. I didn't, of course, but that's not stopping you from setting up a strawman and then knocking it down. Good lord. If you want to make an argument about where we get our food--economic factors, sociological factors, and so on--then by all means do so. Just don't invent bullshit, attribute stuff to me that I never wrote, etc. Your approach is just like the pathetic "liberal fascism" schtick that Jonah Goldberg keeps flogging in his books, syndicated columns, and Faux News appearances.

  • Jim H (unverified)
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    "billy":

    Please tell us why you (and, seemingly, other progressives) are in favor of corporate welfare to Portland's millionaires?

    How about you first tell me where I indicated that I'm "in favor of corporate welfare to Portland's millionaires"? kthxbai

  • joel dan walls (unverified)
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    Jim H--You didn't advocate what Kaarlock claims you advocated. That's the point. He just makes up stuff because demolishing strawmen is easier than actual thinking.

  • rlw (unverified)
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    Forgive me for being stupid. I'm having a hard time to understand why a fist fight has developed over something as innocent and laudable as GARDENS?

    Is it possible for folks here to find something they don't want to fight about?

    Gosh! Gee! Could somebody please redux that famous Pie Post back during the election?

  • Flabby is the New Intellectual (unverified)
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    rlw, you mean exercise restraint? Sounds great. Who wants to start first? Fact is, as "billy" is a regular feature, and the blog exercises total editorial control. Like it or not, 'billy' is a feature of BO. The only thing that will change that is if we all do the same and post our favorite diatribe whenever some subject comes up. Every time, unchanged, just like JK. Just sign it "Thanks, JK" and everyone will get the point. Until then, it's "and now from our peanut gallery correspondent, James Carcrock"!

    Personally, I find him easy to ignore. He quotes this NASA guy for months on end, and this week the same guy comes out and says that the "democratic process isn't working with climate change", and basically says JK's kind will happily drive us off a cliff. And it didn't phase him one bit. Maybe he's deluded?

    I work 50% of the time in Pasadena, Texas, and I'm going to a little soiree at the end of this month that I'm told he might be attending. I'm just the obnoxious sort that will try to get him to write a personal letter to JK, telling him to get real.

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    Wow Jiang. It must be hard living with the chip.

    There are historical photos of Reed College grounds at the Physical plant. You can see the plot expanding in every decade's photos.

    The rest of your screed doesn't deserve a response.

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    "By the way, anyone out there working on a progressive effort to refer the stadium corporate welfare deal to the voters? I guess not."

    Why would there be, since no "corporate welfare" is involved? Since when is having a private entity pay millions to build a stadium for the city "corporate welfare?" Sounds more like government welfare.

  • Gil Johnson (unverified)
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    Most apartment complexes waste a great deal of space on what passes for landscaping--i.e., a swath of barkdust interrupted every few feet by a shrub. Both banal and unproductive. A lot of others have far more lawn than necessary. Much of this space could be converted to garden. In fact, the new owner of what had been a rather ordinary apartment complex has converted it into an "ecovillage" with plenty of gardens where the landscaping and some parking used to be. Here's a link: http://www.kailashecovillage.com/

    Building up rather than out may not give every apartment dweller a plot of land, but in the overall scheme of things, it means less land consumed for residential occupancy and automobile use, which means more land can be used for growing food. I do think there should be city codes that mandate green roofs on all high rise complexes, as well as balconies. I did pretty well with tomatoes, peppers, lettuce, radishes and some herbs on an apartment balcony several years ago.

    But if we must stack people up in buildings, couldn't an enterprising architect come up with an improvement upon this 42-year-old development: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Habitat_67.html

  • Pam (unverified)
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    Getting back on topic, I was really excited to see that the White House will have a kitchen garden. It sounds like the White House chefs are more excited about it than anyone!

    Sure, it's a photo-op. Whether the Obama family spends time working in the garden is irrelevant to me. Instead of chemically-treated lawn, there will be herbs and vegetables. How cool is that?!

    No one is suggesting that people should be forced to grow their own veggies. But if you're so inclined, it's nice to have an example to look up to!

  • rlw (unverified)
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    Hey Flab- I personally know they do not excise or allow folks to post. In fact, when I realized that this blog was encouraging me to act like a hotheaded bull elephant with nary a substantive thought in his head, AND that this would negatively affect my employment picture in the future should some of the HR folks in MY field choose to google me..... I had to beg piteously and unsuccessfully for my offending posts to be removed for the sake of the good of the life of the... people!

    So, hate to be perceived as disagreeable, but Kari does NOT remove posts or keep them from appearing. If there's a good fist fight that goes on way too long, he might weigh in with a comical "chalupas" comment, but that's as lucky as you are going to get in the race to recover your senses.

    As they say, "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here".

  • rlw (unverified)
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    Pam, here is a blog I think you would enjoy. This woman is doing, as a private citizen, what the Obamas are doing on the National Front Lawn. IF there are creative, positive-minded folks out there observing, this could become an artistic, teaching, interesting dialog. I think of a national blog on driveway gardens, etc.

    Check this out: I think she needs to be our spokesperson to the Whitehouse - http://www.frankejames.com/

  • rlw (unverified)
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    I think my comment to Flabby disappeared into blogoblackhole! Flab, I was enjoying myself with little pirouettes of language on the way to telling you that Kari does not edit this blog. I know it for a fact! He does not allow or disallow posts, and even if you beg him with your grandfather's fortune in your hands, he will not negate thread integrity for any reason at all after the fact!

    WHen I realized that engaging in THIS particular blog with THIS particular mix of personalities was making me be stuck on RANT and permanently sealing the door to my thinking cap, I begged hime to just redact all of my stuff.

    It also related to the fact that HR and managers in my field now openly and proudly discuss that they are googling ppl who apply for jobs as well as after they are employed, and ppl are being denied employ or scooched out of current employ on the basis of what is stuck up here in the web, the web, the immovable web.

    Even then, he could not, would not, take out my stuff.

    So, Flab, even tho I'm trying to be more agreeable these days, I have to say to you that your assumption is baseless. More's the pity, I say. :)... heh.

  • rlw (unverified)
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    Dammit. Comments appear, disappear, reappear in a random way. Dammit. Sorry about the dup.

  • rlw (unverified)
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    Paradise Unpaved - this is the essay I was thinking of for you kitchen gardeners to enjoy: http://www.frankejames.com/debate/?p=98

  • j_luthergoober (unverified)
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    How come nobody remembers Gerald Ford's WIN gardens way back when??? WIN stood for Whip Inflation Now. We all wore the buttons. The Feds at Treasury were quick to act and created the $2 bill. Some of us liberal Dems just hunkered down for another 'bout with Republican economic policy and turned our WIN buttons upside down. NIM stood for No Immediate Miracles. For the record; the most subversive thing an American can do is grow their own garden vegetables; it simply destroys the mainstay of consumerism; industrialized sustenance and all the complexities supporting nutrient generation, bartering and delivery.

  • rlw (unverified)
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    <h2>luther- it also strikes a blow against reservation life, adn how it all began, and how it is OUR way of life now.</h2>

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