What the Mets Can't Do for Queens, the Beavers Can't Do for Lents
Steve Novick
Let me start by stating for the record: I love Randy Leonard. Some of my fondest memories of my time in Oregon politics are from when I was working for the Senate Democrats, and Randy would call on me for data to support one of his populist sallies – or I would go to him with an idea for a populist rant to deliver, and he would do so, brilliantly. When Randy ran against my good friends Serena Cruz and Nick Fish for Council, my first loyalty, and my vote, were with Randy. If Portland is ever under attack, the second thing I will do is head for Fred Miller and Karla Wenzel's house, because it’s hard to find and on high ground. But the first thing I will do is try to get Randy to come with me, because he’s the guy I want at my side when the shooting starts.
But I have to disagree with Randy on this idea of spending tens of millions of dollars to build a baseball stadium in Lents. I am 100% convinced that if the New York Mets can’t bring economic development to their part of Queens, the Portland Beavers aren’t going to bring any economic development to Lents.
I started thinking this morning, ‘I used to go to Mets games – I don’t recall ever stopping to buy anything or eat anywhere outside the stadium.’ So I Googled ‘Shea Stadium economic development.’ Sure enough, there were the articles: In forty years, the presence of Shea Stadium has done nothing to ‘vitalize’ the area. The articles state, or quote people stating, that the Stadium SHOULD be an economic engine, and that it WOULD be, if only the City did more marketing … or whatever. But the bottom-line fact is that it HASN’T happened – even with another sports complex, site of the U.S. Open, nearby.
A 1995 New York Times article said: “The area around Shea Stadium is desolate now, except for junkyards, metalworks and other industrial businesses,” and quoted the local Assemblyman as saying, “fans coming to Shea Stadium and the National Tennis Center have had a negligible economic impact on the surrounding communities.” A 2004 article from something called nycfuture.org said: “The immediate area around the U.S. Tennis Center and Shea Stadium is utterly devoid of restaurants and bars. Most fans opt for the overpriced and underwhelming food concessions found inside each complex.” Nor do fans spill over to lively, nearby downtown Flushing. (The same article also said of Yankee Stadium: “local restaurants and other businesses derive very little benefit from the approximately three million baseball fans who annually pass through the House that Ruth Built.”)
We know what sports fans do. They come to the game. They go into the stadium. They watch. And then they go home.
I am a baseball fan. I also like chocolate chip cookies. But I’m not going to pretend that baseball means neighborhood economic development – any more than I am going to pretend that chocolate chip cookies are good for my health.
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1:58 p.m.
May 22, '09
P.S. - of course Shea Stadium was recently replaced, but that's beside the point ....
2:08 p.m.
May 22, '09
Steve could you believe Church missed third base? I'm still not over that...
May 22, '09
Steve - if you sit in New Shea (I won't acknowledge its store-bought name), you get a lovely view, beyond right field, of auto wrecking shops.
Part of the problem is that stadiums are designed to keep revenue inside. Every penny someone spends on a burger outside the stadium is a penny they're not spending on a burger inside the stadium, where the team/facility owner can control the revenue stream.
Now, someone could go outside the stadium and sell burgers for $5 less than the Beavers' concession contractor will and make some money.. but at the end of the day, there's a captive audience that can't shop around for the three hour duration of a baseball game.
2:17 p.m.
May 22, '09
I could not agree with you more, Steve. But I'd go farther to say that the major sports leagues in this country are a racket. There's a reason that the NFL has rules forbidding another team to follow the Green Bay model of community ownership--the current ownership system siphons money out of the community.
Small and medium-sized cities need to bond together and quit being patsies for the "divide and conquer" techniques of the big leagues. During the last push for a baseball expansion, every Portland-sized city in the U.S. was busy competing to see who could offer the biggest pile of free money and perks to attract a ball team. Each town got stroked and played in turn, collectively lured into a competitive race to the bottom; each convinced they were the only one baseball loved. Same with every sport. Mayors need to bind together and just say no to big money give-aways. Communities need to force the issue. If the leagues and teams want my city's money; make us a real partner in ownership and profits, not just partners in a huge investment risk that creates low-level service jobs and infrastructure nightmares. Until then I'll be watching pick up games in the park.
Oh yeah--and stop telling me we need a new stadium more than affordable housing in ALL our neighborhoods.
2:19 p.m.
May 22, '09
I’m in agreement with you, Steve.
As Richard Florida, blogger and author of the “The Rise of the Creative Class”, recently blogged on the topic of publically financed stadia: “The real question is what these expensive, publicly bankrolled behemoths add to their local economies. The consensus across every, single serious study ever done of the economic impact of sports stadia is ‘absolutely nothing.’ As the old song goes, ‘say it again.’" (here)
2:32 p.m.
May 22, '09
I don't entirely disagree with you, stadiums are not always the best economic development tools. We made a similar argument when I ran the campaign against the SF 49ers stadium proposal in 1997. This deal was significantly different than the 1996 campaign we were involved in to build the Giant's stadium in San Francisco. The main difference is the 49ers stadium, and Shea for that matter were not part a a larger development plan. A stadium alone can not redevelop a neighborhood.
The Giant's stadium, which has been a huge success is on a light rail and commuter rail line. And sits near the now developing UCSF campus in Mission Bay. The stadium has been a great economic engine but it is part of a larger economic development program. I know nothing about this particular stadium deal but don't write off every stadium proposal. If done correctly they can be very good tools for economic development.
May 22, '09
FWIW: Shea Stadium may have been the worst facility of its kind in modern U.S. history. I believe it was the brainchild of Robert Moses, the ideologue who's work nearly destroyed New York City.
So maybe it's a bad analogy. But the point is well taken. An investment like this can go terribly wrong. Even if the upside is good, is the risk worth it?
I love sports. I love good stadiums. I want soccer. I want someone else to pay for them. I deeply suspect this isn't a very good public investment, regardless of the location. I hate problems like this.
May 22, '09
Steve, I'm not sure the comparisons with New York's stadia area quite accurate. Shea is surrounded primarily by parking lots, not a neighborhood. I don't think the intent was ever to stimulate economic growth in the surrounding area when it was built (1964).
There are numerous places around Yankee Stadium that are hopping before and after games, particularly along River Ave., but it's mainly a residential neighborhood around the Stadium, and was so long before any idea that ballparks were engines for economic growth.
But having said all of that, I too remain skeptical of the claims of economic prosperity. I would love - LOVE - a new ballpark in Portland, and Lents could be a good location. But let Paulson fund it, paying the costs of replacing park space as well as construction. OR, as the previous poster suggested, let the city be a greater partner in the proceeds.
2:49 p.m.
May 22, '09
Jim and Dan - As to Jim's point about being part of a larger economic development plan: a major objection to this deal is that it relies on taking away money that was going to be used for other purposes in the area. As to Dan's point about the nature of the Shea neighborhood: maybe it's not an exact parallel, but the articles make the point that Yankee stadium doesn't seem to have increased economic activity there either, and Shea has not spawned more visitors to downtown Flushing nearby. And if developers thought there was money to be made, they'd take those Shea area parking lots and make them into something else.
May 22, '09
I used to live in the NY area, and went to many games at both parks (especially Shea). Steve's remarks are dead-on correct, as usual. I love going to Beavers games at the current park. I think the restaurants and bars around the park probably do receive a boost in business from the fans. The difference is that a ballpark can have an impact on existing businesses in the neighborhood, but I've never once seen a business environment spring up outside a new ballpark where there weren't existing businesses. Nick Christensen hit the nail on the head upthread, I think. You'll notice that all the new major-league parks have extensive food and drink options inside the park. New Shea even hopes to keep people in those venues before and after the games. It's pie-in-the-sky to think a new park is going to stimulate neighborhood business development.
3:02 p.m.
May 22, '09
I have to agree with you also, Steve. As someone now working in economic development, I cringe every time someone makes the economic development argument for sports arenas, performing arts centers and even convention centers. None of these have ever been shown to produce significant economic spillover effects to their immediate neighborhoods much less the local economy.
I have no problem with public support for these things as local amenities but unfortunately they can never sell them on this basis. Therefore they are sold as economic development opportunities, with the political impetus for them coming from (1) the minority of people who want it as a local amenity and (2) the relatively small number of people who will (or think they will) directly profit by them.
P.S. Can we also retire the concept of the economic multiplier effect? This is so overstated as to render many economic impact projections meaningless. Most economics suggest that, if anything, maybe it is $1.50 for every $1.00 spent, but if you believe promoters of a project, a dollar spent locally is the closest thing we'll ever see to a perpetual motion machine, turning over endlessly until it reaches everyone in the community at least twice.
May 22, '09
Great column, Steve! I have always thought this had boondoggle written all over it, and am disappointed in Randy Leonard.
Jack, after a debate over what causes job loss and job growth at a legislative town hall last night, I typed "Amy's Kitchen in Oregon" into a search engine.
Not only are they still in Medford, they actually have a job opening!
I believe studying success stories like that make more sense than "we have this great idea, therefore it will work because we believe in it".
May 22, '09
Why look to New York for an example? Look at PGE Park. How many thriving bars and restaurants in that area are anchored by the stadium? There are a few, but the area isn't exactly lively when compared to either downtown or Northwest.
I don't see any benefit to building a new stadium for the Beavers, but if we're going to do it, there have got to be better places than a neighborhood park in a residential area. (Expo Center and South Waterfront both spring to mind.)
May 22, '09
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May 22, '09
Steve, One correction about activity around Shea:
In the early days, Shea Stadium had the 1964 World's Fair right next to it, but I doubt we'll be able to do anything like that in Lents. Not even Sam could make those numbers fly.
May 22, '09
Is it too harsh to say the whole idea behind the stadium in Lents seems to be more like a high stakes version of pocket picking than anything else? Some outsiders come in and give us flash and dash to distract us, and before we know they're down the road again and we're standing there, broke.
I'm going to give the locals the benefit of the doubt on this and assume their intentions are in the right place. They believe this kind of project will over the years provide Portland in general, if not the effected neighborhood(s) specifically, an icon of growth.
There's probably some sort of subliminal relationship between those in the general public who desire a major league baseball team for Portland and the thought that this proposed stadium takes the city three of four steps down that road. Picking our pockets while promising us future glory for a status many Portlanders want makes for great public relations and can sway some opinions with no facts required.
Still, Steve is far too nice to even imply something I'll state clearly: While the intentions of those involved are probably well-meaning, when outsiders with ties to the last presidential administration come to town saying they'll make us hundreds of millions if only we give them tens of millions, I get suspicious. Damn suspicous.
Even the best-intentioned close friends and associates can be blinded when it comes to large sums of cash.
Steve for mayor? I'm there.
BTW I favor using public money for professional sports if and only if the community OWNS the sports franchises that will use the facilities a la Green Bay, or if the public money is in the form of high interest short-term secured loans to the team owners.
May 22, '09
One data point to add. Mid sized stadia seem to have more longevity than larger ones. The one right near Shea, on Staten Island, is the #1 choice for the American Cricket League, which no one could have imagined even two years ago. So, I'm not sure about the comparison.
BTW, Portland's cricket is getting pretty righteous!
May 22, '09
Add-on to the last post...
If we really want to fund development projects in distressed neighborhoods, lets pay for clean-up, infrastructure improvements, and building the clubs, small theaters, and restaurants we hope major building projects will create, since we're told that's where the economic development happens. Just cut to the chase and leave out Shea Stadium West.
May 22, '09
Steve,
I love baseball, but not sure I would get over to Lents to see many games, or spend any money in the surrounding area.
Randy L. may be a great guy to have next to you when the shooting starts, but I would keep him far far away from your spending accounts.
May 22, '09
I got a lot of information from this site. flowers
May 22, '09
Who the hell let the spammers in?
May 22, '09
If it ain't Sam it ain't spam!
May 22, '09
I used to live across the street from PacBel park and I think it suggests that there will be positive, economic knock-on effects for the neighborhood, IF the city does the hard work to revitalize the area at the same time, as SF did with China Basin.
You can't build a park and get a new neighborhood, but you can build a new park and neighborhood, and the park will support the neighborhood's ongoing development. That's my take, at least.
May 22, '09
I agree with you Steve - on Randy who I also respect - and your view of the Lents stadium. However, in the case of the Lents deal, I would take it a step further. Not only will the stadium not be effective as an economic development tool, funding it will result in losing other opportunities for economic growth.
A very a clear trade-off is being requested by proponents of the Lents deal. To build a stadium, a significant loss in affordable housing investment and small business development is required.
It has been suggested that that loss of affordable housing in Lents will be made up elsewhere to ensure "no net loss of affordable housing". Putting aside core concerns about whether or not the city's existing commitment to affordable housing is robust, this promise expands the scope of any decision on stadium development beyond the purview of the Lents URA advisory committee.
If this deal is allowed, not only will Lents give up its ability to develop affordable housing, other urban renewal areas will need to program money away from their present economic development plans to make up for the affordable housing shortfall in Lents.
In terms of economic development, it really reads as a lose-lose to me. A poor investment for Lents and a loss of economic investment in other parts of the city.
May 22, '09
Steve Novick:
I am 100% convinced that if the New York Mets can’t bring economic development to their part of Queens, the Portland Beavers aren’t going to bring any economic development to Lents.
Bob T:
Again, that shouldn't matter. The answer should be "No!" for this. Period. Once you start tweaking around with with possibilities of economic development, and oh, maybe this particular plan and incentives will work, and so on, you play right into the hands of people who shouldn't get the money anymore than if they were Safeway executives asking taxpayers to build the next Safeway store. You need to get over those urges to "manage" economic activity in this way so you can tell people that, "You see, this is governing".
I was hoping the PGE Park scam was a lesson, but here we are with a corporate welfare deal pushed by Leonard and progressive super-hero Sam Adams. After all that talk about corporate welfare, you got scvrewed by your own people. That figures. There was rally weeks ago over the new bridge design. Where's the progressive rally protesting this corporate welfare?
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 22, '09
Ian:
I hate problems like this.
Bob T:
What problem? Saying "No!" to this should be quite easy to anyone understanding basic economics and committed to a free enterprise system. There's only a "problem" for people who support micro-management of everything so often that they've lost all common sense.
Again, there's no problem.
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 22, '09
Carl Fisher:
Steve could you believe Church missed third base? I'm still not over that...
Bob T:
Forget that -- should J.C. Martin have been called out after the throw hit his wrist?
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 23, '09
Steve, great post! I don't know randy Leonard so can't comment on what a great guy he may, or may not be. Anyone who only knows of him from the overt shenanigans going on for Paulson and the Timbers/Beavers stadia would probably not agree on Randy.
The argument shouldn't be about whter Lents neighborhood could benefit, it should rightfully be that ANY Urban renewal dollars should not be utilized anywhere for private sports team stadia.
By engaging in the specifics of the Lents 'deal'; Randy and the proponents now have you willing to discuss where the deal 'might' work. The whole premise of taking public dollars to shore up this boondoggle is the camel's nose under the tent.
6:17 a.m.
May 23, '09
I loved jogging around the old Shea stadium. It had an "other world" feel with miles of deserted parking lots, grass growing in the cracks of the asphalt, rarely another person in sight, and memories of the World Fair. Pop down to my favorite deli in Queens for a nosh..good times.
Randy's field of dreams would not, in my judgement, become an anchor for economic development. Steve, you've hit another home run!
8:59 a.m.
May 23, '09
Without disagreeing with the core of Steve's argument, the "baseball fans go straight to the stadium" story isn't completely accurate. I've been in two brewpubs on opposite sides of the continent and watched the customers fill the place to the bursting point and then disappear at game time: Pyramid outside Safeco and the Boston Beer Works outside Fenway. There's a certain segment of fans that packs in the affordable (and good) food and drink before a game, rather than choosing $6 bottles of Bud Light in the stadium.
Of course, these are locations that would never survive if they had to rely on home games for customers. And neither of them is in Lents.
May 23, '09
Kurt Chapman:
The argument shouldn't be about wheter Lents neighborhood could benefit, it should rightfully be that ANY Urban renewal dollars should not be utilized anywhere for private sports team stadia.
Bob T:
The argument should be whether or not Urban Renewal programs have become something other than what they were originally intended for. They ara goldmine for corporate welfare types (whether a stadium owner or mixed-use building owner).
Sorry, but such a stadium deal fits right into the general description of a valid project using current UR mindsets. That's what happens when politicians start redefining things and voters respond not by thinking about real issues but about whether or not it'll be "cool" to have an "openly gay mayor of a major city".
This is a progressive pile, so you clean it up.
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 23, '09
Jefffrane, What about the Bullpen Tavern here? Back in the 70s I used to go there with my co-workers to unwind during a hard day of work. I'd always drop by before seeing a soccer game in Civic Stadium and the place was jammed. What players the NASL had starting with Pele.
Now we want to do it again, and end baseball there. They want to take something that has worked fine for decades and break it into two pieces. Where's the brains? Where's the respect for the Bullpen Taverns of the world?
May 23, '09
Look what happened to the Virginia Cafe. That place was legendary in its original location and the city planners crushed it.
Not to defend the loss of Virginia Cafe, but I think that was the work of Tom Moyer, not "city planners." He bought the entire block (in which Virginia Cafe was a tenant) from the owner with his own money to build a high-rise. And then ran out of money when the economy collapsed. As for the hole in the ground, that's a stalled project -- a half-finished foundation of a future high-rise with underground parking. If it ultimately fails, the city can always buy in and turn it into an underground parking structure with a park and maybe a restaurant on top.
I'm still not convinced that major league soccer and minor league baseball can't work in the same venue. (Of course, I don't need to be convinced; it's note like this scheme will ever go to a public vote.) Yeah, PGE Park would need to be modified (retractable seating, among other redesign work), but it would be a lot cheaper than trying to build a brand new stadium elsewhere.
May 23, '09
Okay, my knowledge of Park Avenue West is limited. I wouldn't be surprised if it has the usual Portland public/private stuff at some level. All kinds of trading blocks and rights to do this or that, but as far as a private citizen buying land and trying to build something, I'm not against that. And I'm not piling on about the economy, except to note that the biggest recession in our lifetimes does seem to be a bad time for unnecessary spending - and that does apply to this Paulson deal.
May 23, '09
There is important new information that surfaced this past week which dramatically changes the options available to the city -- and for the better.
Back in January, Paulson told the city that a new soccer-specific stadium averages $120 million, which is the reason he gave for not pursuing that option. Unfortunately, the city's soccer task force never did any fact-checking, because it turns out there is an MLS-ready, soccer-specific stadium in Montreal that opened in May, 2008, at a cost of $13 million, in U.S. dollars.
That is not a typo. The venue is Saputo Stadium (in French: Stade Saputo). It currently seats 13,000, but plans have already been drawn up to expand its capacity to 20,000, if and when the Montreal Impact USL soccer team is awarded an MLS franchise.
For photos and specs on Saputo Stadium, go to www.impactmontreal.com/tickets/stade.aspx.
So, if construction costs in Montreal worked out to $1,000 per seat, then it's a safe guess that a comparable, 20,000-seat stadium could be built here in Portland for around $20 million.
So, why not simply buy the plans from Montreal, and build a carbon copy here in Portland?
That would save the $85 million-plus earmarked for renovating PGE Park and building a new baseball stadium. And with the money already pledged by Paulson toward the current deal, the city's cost to build a new soccer-specific stadium could end up being less than $10 million. Plus, Paulson would end up with a soccer stadium that is superior to a renovated PGE Park.
It's not too late to make something good happen. So, spread the word about Saputo Stadium.
May 23, '09
Kurt Chapman:
I don't know randy Leonard so can't comment on what a great guy he may, or may not be.
Bob T:
Because of this deal, no one should consider him a "great guy". Far from it.
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 23, '09
So, are we talking real sports here, or are we talking "The Big Time", i.e., watchin' niggas livin' large?
It's pretty interesting that the same people that fault Sam for his indiscretions pay big bucks to watch every black rapist, thief and drug dealer that has game.
Check out twitter during the NBA finals. There's not a word about the teams. It's all LeBron and Kobe and the girl from the hotel... Yeah, athletics builds character.
You really think Randy is worse than Kobe? How do you treat each? Randy would love some of the "contempt" you show to Kobe! No, Randy's sin is being accessible. You all complain to store clerks about company policy, too, don't you?
Put another way, look at your responses to people that talk about real service, straight talk, and making sacrifices for the community. Kari will tell them about puppy dogs and unicorns flying out of his ass, someone else will call them a troll, and a third will say it's the dumbest idea they've ever heard. Just who do you think is going to end up in city gov? You've created a filter where you weed out anyone real. That leaves it to the hacks to get religion and come around. When they do, all you can do is either whine about their methods, or if they don't, ridicule them for failure (you didn't do that with Carter?)
I never had much truck with Fidel Castro until I started reading Blue Oregon. Over the years, though, it has borne out most of his social views. When I moved here, if I were to retool society, it would have looked like the Rainbow Family. Today, it would look like Castro's Cuba. Portland, and BO, literally give progressivism a bad name.
May 24, '09
Mr. Donnell:
I don't understand your post. I sense that you're making some complaints that over-vetting people's qualifications for public service, focusing too much on personal lives and not enough on whether or not the person is a good choice for such service.
But that's just my guess. I couldn't follow your comments, nor did I really get the point you were trying to make. Would you please try to clarify what you meant and how it applies to the subject matter of Steve's original article? Thanks.
May 24, '09
You are just delusional about Randy Leonard. The man long ago abandoned his roots in the community to join Vera Katz, Sam Adams and assorted others as tools of wealthy developers. He is also a bully who brooks no opposition. Not that this will keep Leonard from trying to exploit some faux workingman's street cred if he decides to run for governor.
May 24, '09
Peter Apanel:
So, if construction costs in Montreal worked out to $1,000 per seat, then it's a safe guess that a comparable, 20,000-seat stadium could be built here in Portland for around $20 million.
So, why not simply buy the plans from Montreal, and build a carbon copy here in Portland?
Bob T:
Great --go tell Paulson. The taxpayers, city etc should have nothing at all to do with it other than to make sure Paulson does not use force or fraud from beginning to end, and raises his own money from volunteer investors as well as his own and his father's.
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 24, '09
The SF Giants failed again and again to blackmail San Francisco into paying for their stadium.Finally the city and the Giants put together a much better deal, placing the stadium in the Mission Bay redevelopment area. It's one of the few cases I can think of that there actually is economic symbiosis because the neighborhood surrounding the stadium is an attractive destination spot in its own right.
The proposed Lents stadium is more like Candlestick Park, situated in a bad neighborhood. Folks hightail it out of Candlestick as fast as their high-end SUVs can carry them... The economic benefit to the Bayview/Hunters Point? zippola. The voters did approve a new stadium/shopping center for the 49ers adjacent to the old Candlestick (in a controversial elections fraught with allegations of fraud and ballot boxes found floating in the Bay) but that deal got kibboshed by the 49er owners.
In my opinion, PDX doesn't get much out of this whole deal, some musical chairs action with a couple of second tier sports teams. The biggest potential winners? Paulson and Nike.
May 24, '09
Ron Morgan:
The SF Giants failed again and again to blackmail San Francisco into paying for their stadium.
Bob T:
The term "blackmail" can be overused when it comes to things such as sports stadiums or arenas. The point is still well taken, but what makes this sort of blackmail possible is the selfishness of city governments and all of the fans (and even non-fans in many cases) who buy into the propaganda that the presence of a private pro-sports team is vital.
All that the owners have been doing these years since about 1930 has been to take advantage of this tendency of the politicians and citizens to want a sports team nearby. Keep in mind that sports owners can't get a dime from taxpayers without the politicians doing it for them, often with the help of a majority of people who force the minority to fund it as well. But I do hesitate calling it blackmail because a city does not need a sports team or stadium. Problem is that once the government started with this sports corporate welfare, the cat was out of the bag and there's no reason to imagine owners no longer playing the game.
Blaming the owners for these deals allows drek like Sam Adams and Randy Leonard to escape most blame for continuing this scam system, so that progressives can still worship them and re-elect them or elect them to another office. Please show me how Paulson can take your money or land without the government doing it for him. You can't. So just see this as another New Urbanist or Smart Growth [Dumb Growth] kinda thing and you're okay. You see, you can point to it and say that here's an example of the government forcing the market to be "more responsible", or to "work" in the first place, in that the stadium isn't just plopped down in a suburb where traffic will increase, and with no small retail space allowed nearby and all that. Cities must have their sports teams to be "liveable" and to be important. And Paulson is laughing all the way to the bank.
I counted on a mostly progressive city council to shoot this one down, and to not even let it get anywhere. But they flopped, and flopped badly. Probably because these ideas fit right into their agenda quite easily after all.
Bob Tiernan Portland
May 24, '09
As a baseball fan (GO METS!) and sports fan in general, I have been to many games in various locations; from the Big House in Ann Arbor to the United Center in Chicago to PGE Park right here in Portland.
I have gone out before and after games but almost always the venues of choice have not been located anywhere near the sports venue. This has been intentional. Mostly because I want to get away from the crowds heading to or spilling out from the game but also because I don't want to surround myself in a setting created for stadium goers.
Steve, you are spot on. The majority of sports fans go to a game to watch and experience the game. In my case, this involves about $40 for a ticket, $16 on a couple beers and just under $10 for nachos. When it is time to leave I don't have much money for anything else.
May 26, '09
Very good post Steve.
A word on Randy's behalf: He has been a tremendous advocate for affordable housing on Council. Randy truly cares about poor people and addressing inequity, this bad idea aside.
I will say that I am infuriated that Randy would try and take affordable housing funds to pay for this AAA stadium. I am not sure why he has fallen in love with Paulson's scheme, but let's work to make sure that tax dollars are not wasted on this dubious enterprise.
May 28, '09
Posted by: joel dan walls | May 24, 2009 8:00:41 AM
You are just delusional about Randy Leonard. The man long ago abandoned his roots in the community to join Vera Katz, Sam Adams and assorted others as tools of wealthy developers. He is also a bully who brooks no opposition. Not that this will keep Leonard from trying to exploit some faux workingman's street cred if he decides to run for governor.
No follow-up here says a bit. I think DLD hit the nail on the head. The recall will be when us delusional types decide to cast him to the sharks, if he doesn't talk, walk and think straight.
Vera knew the difference between self-aggrandizement and what was good for the City. Sam and co. don't. And Vera's legacy will be written to her discredit if she doesn't get real in July as well.
Caveat Radices!!! Do the identify politics, in-group politics as usual thing in July, and you will all be replaced. Don't expect that to sink in, but all you fat sugar daddies greasing their bum need to take major note. You will not like working with us. Pressure them to get real, or you will be. Replacing them with your cronies is not an option. You want business as usual? You had better make sure they do what WE think is the right thing. The alternative...well, "eat the rich", is a very mild understatement of what you'll find in their place if we have to replace the lot. This is going to be a hot, angry summer.
That gets impractical real fast. Look at it this way. How much would it cost to put full-time, airport style security on the OHSU tram? If people are in the street throwing ALL the bums out, do you think they'll just walk on by the major symbols of their ass reaming? Sam won't do what's best for Portland. He doesn't even know. That where it's fortunate that he's controlled by business interests. They WILL blink. Next month the action starts. This month we should be calling business interests' attention to which side their bread is butter on.
May 28, '09
Their have been many studies done about the economic stimulus of sport arenas on the local economy. They provide little or no benefit. The exception is one study in San Diego where the stadium was built with an additional $400 million going specifically to economic development in that neighborhood.
What the City of Portland is asking for right now from Lents is to steal the funding from economic development and toss it to subsidizes a multimillionaires toy baseball team.
I am a little disgruntled that I am agreeing with Bob Tiernan on this. I pray this doesn't make me a republican.
May 28, '09
Dan Newth:
Their have been many studies done about the economic stimulus of sport arenas on the local economy. They provide little or no benefit.
Bob T:
And there are many other projects that never come close to being what was promised, but I need to add that even if such studies showed that most or all of these stadiums provide a lot of benefits, it's still wrong for these deals to be made.
Dan Newth:
I am a little disgruntled that I am agreeing with Bob Tiernan on this. I pray this doesn't make me a republican.
Bob T:
You have no reason to be disgruntled. All you're doing is showng that you are principled enough to resist the temptation to support these projects by not buying into the stale nonsense about how they allegedly trigger all kinds of economic activity, while the team owner laughs all the way to the bank and the politicans get to satisfy their egos. It has nothing to do with being a Republican (I'm non-affiliated), or even a Democrat, but about having good, basic economic sense on the matter.
Bob Tiernan Portland
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