Yes, they have lots of stuff and it's really cheap, but isn't that part of the reason America's economy is in the shitter? Too many people wanted too much of the cheap stuff, so the credit card companies obliged them.

I think you have to back up further to explain the Wal-Mart phenomenon.

1. There has been a total absence of anti-trust action by both political parties. Wal-Mart is anti-competitive in its strategies and should have been cut down to size 10 years ago. It should not have the pricing power it does today and that comes from its sheer size and ability to order from China by the shipfull and to influence government policy at home.

2. At the same time, real wages have been falling, so people who are just trying to make ends meet often have no choice but to shop there in order to stretch a paycheck far enough to support a family. This is a vicious cycle, because Wal-Mart's monstrous economy of scale (and corporate consolidation through mergers, acquisition, and predatory expansion like Wal-Mart's in all industries) is a big reason why real wages are falling, unions have lost leverage, etc.

Local action is good and needed, but it's hard to blame the consumer who is living on subsistence wages for doing what they have to do to subsist. What you really need is true leadership at the federal level to enforce anti-trust legislation and restrict Wal-Mart's practices. I don't see that happening in the Obama Administration, not when Hillary and Bill are such close friends of the Waltons.

Hayden Island is an island in the Columbia, where Jantzen Beach is. Hayden Meadows is on the mainland, where Lowe's and Portland Meadows horsetrack is, and where G.I. Joe's used to be. Not the same place.

Maybe state and local governments ought to be doing their shopping at Walmart because cheap crap is far better than all the costly crap the legislature and the Portland City Council hands us taxpayers. Most of people in the private sector have not received the healthy raises or have the lavish taxpayer financed retirement benefits like state and City of Portland workers. Maybe too TriMet should shop at Walmart for health insurance because that overload of crap too is being piled on taxpayers. Government can not spend its way out of a recession. It’s about time Sammy Boy, the eco-zealots and the other cohorts of socialized living embrace creating long term jobs in the private sector from whom ever is willing to provide them.

Galen, the anti-Walmart Corporate Campiagn (funded by SEIU) has not won in Medford. They have merely delayed the inevitable. The most recent ruling was in both Medford's and Walmart's favor. The SEIU backed naysayers lost.

TA, would you be equally outraged were the proposed big box be from Costco? Or is it only because Walmart and SEIU are locked in a decades long struggle?

I'm just asking, personally I don't shop at Walmart, but wonder how/why any progressive can come off fighting one legal business opportunity over another. Cheers.

Did either of you read the previous posts? I'm with t.a. The other posters fleshed out the details nicely. Maybe read them before you post.

Being unemployed, poor, on food stamps, living in subsidized housing, and receiving health care through a combination of state/federal programs, I am hard-pressed to see Wal-Mart as an evildoer here. I make periodic forays down to the Wal-Mart on SE Holgate (by bike, of course, from Hollywood, where I live) for food and occasional goods. A walking-distance Grocery Outlet and a nearish Fred Meyer are more frequent mainstays, with rare trips to a neighborhood Trader Joe's when I have a little extra, but I would welcome more competition from a closer Wal-Mart. Instead, my neighborhood is about to get a new Whole Foods, which is as far out of my price range as New Seasons, Portland's much-lauded farmers markets, or just about anything else grown or made in Oregon.

Oh, and the building housing the new Whole Foods? "The Beverly," a glorified parking garage with some luxury condos on top and a multi-national TARPed Chase Bank branch (with the all-important "Drive-Thru Teller" available). And this building is LEED certified! Just goes to show you how far we are from really getting it.

Wal-Mart is the least of our problems. Chronic unemployment and underemployment, a city bureaucracy that confuses "sweetheart deals for favored real estate developers" with "economic development," and a continued reliance on auto-centric building for an auto-centric populace is what is sinking us. I have fewer problems avoiding any need for a car than I do finding anything not in local thrift stores or big-box retailers that I can afford. Walkable neighborhoods? I'm all for it. But you have to have some place you can walk to that is selling something you can buy without hocking your Mom's jewelry. I don't need no credit card, I don't even have a bank account (or a place to cash checks anymore, thanks so much, Jeff Merkley), but I do need cheap imported goods from abroad to have clothes to wear and factory farms to have food to eat. So bring on the Wal-Marts.

Kurt, it's not SEIU that is fighting Wal-Mart. It's UFCW.

43% of Walmart profits directly benefits THE WALTON FAMILY. That's the percentage of all that Walmart stock the Walton family heirs owns.

"...The family’s great wealth is the direct result of the creation of the Walton Family Enterprises, which allowed Sam Walton to transfer much of his wealth to his family while avoiding most estate taxes, and allows his children to combine their stock holdings into one group, thus enhancing control of the company.

Fearing they might lose this control of the company if a family member dies, the Walton family has always advocated nullifying or at least greatly reducing the estate tax, and has spent millions fighting on the issue. According to the USA Today, “The Waltons have joined a coterie of wealthy families trying to save fortunes through permanent repeal of the estate tax...review of public documents reveals a small-town Arkansas family emerging as a political juggernaut on tax issues, extending Wal-Mart’s influence over U.S. society even more.”

It is interesting to note that Warren Buffet and David Rockefeller Jr.—some of the wealthiest people in America—advocate against a repeal of the estate tax.

While some experts believe the two estate tax changes proposed by Obama Administration will not change how wealthy families protect their money, you can bet the Walton family will do everything they can to contribute as little to the American Treasury as possible...."

http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/should_the_walton_family_worry_about_estate_tax_changes/

Walmart is a pyramid scheme that steals labor from poor saps that don't know any better and directly transfers almost half it's corporate worth TO ONE SCAMMING FAMILY OF TAX CHEATS.

Other posters have reiterated the points I wanted to stress about Wal-Mart's abusive treatment of suppliers (except for their single-handedly bankrupting Vlasic Foods and their insistence that Snapper's products were too high-quality for their stores).

I live close to Hayden Meadows, and patronize the Lowe's when I can't find something at Hankins on MLK, and Petco.

I would love to see a Costco move there - they provide low prices, large quantities (the times I've gone to the Airport Way Costco, there have always been families in there), and treat their workers like human beings, not parts to cast aside.

Walmart is a pyramid scheme that steals labor from poor saps that don't know any better and directly transfers almost half it's corporate worth TO ONE SCAMMING FAMILY OF TAX CHEATS.

Michael points out that the bottom line for most Americans is that in the business of fraud (the business of America), it's nice to have someone else do the dirty work. He could steal, or let Wal-Mart thieve for him. Or get a job.

I too am on food stamps, underemployed, have no car, don't get any Tri-Met tickets, chronically poor by choice, etc. I'm also 54. My biggest problem with food stamps is that I keep losing benefits for not eating enough. I would probably do better if I didn't read BO; tends to put one off one's dinner.

Maybe the diff is that I have no adipose tissue to speak of, cook everything from scratch, and have chosen not to have any kids. That speaks to intelligence, and the bottom line is that there are a lot of people walking around on assistance, too dumb to manage their lives, that "have" to shop at Wal-Mart.

Aaron... Fred Meyer and Krogers (Fred Meyers parent co.) are UFCW. Fred Meyers has been known to be difficult for UFCW to deal at times.

I have two have half-brothers that made a living wage working part time at Krogers in Ann Arbor, MI while they got their degrees at Go Blue U. They were able to buy their books and pay what students are expected to pay for without having to work so many hours their grades suffer.

I give Fred Meyers/Krogers all my grocery/pharma business because I they did right by my family.

You guys do know that despite the debate over a new Walmart in Medford, there's already one in town on the Crater Lake Highway, right? There's also one just a few miles in Talent, which puts it nice and close to--but not it--Ashland.

Gordie, there is also one in Eagle Point. Hey, I don't understand WHY they want to put a 4th one in our little area, just defend their right to do so without interventionists funded by SEIU.

Yes I am aware of their locations. The one in Medford that was defeated was very close to the population centers in the heart of the city, the ones on Crater Lake are further away near other box stores.

Let's do everything we can do to avoid creating jobs in Portland!

Galen, stop spreading outright lies. The proposed Walmart at the south interchange in Medford is still very much alive. The anti-Walmart group has not prevailed. In fact the latest rulings were all in favor of the Medford decision allowing Walmart to build on the old Baseball field site.

Posted by: Ricky | Dec 24, 2009 4:17:09 PM

Let's do everything we can do to avoid creating jobs in Portland!

So that's why we've stuck with the failed War on Drugs! It creates jobs in low income areas! Here, I thought that quality of life and social ethics were factors, but I took my eye off the ball and forgot a job was a job!

Do any current employees of the 82nd street store read this blog? Yea or nay from those folks would be worth hearing. Might be for it. A lot of rock slingers are against drug law reform.

Dear Kurt I was unaware of that information. To my understanding it was dead. If you have links please provide and I will do more research on it. I have no reason to lie. It achieves nothing.

Kurt C: I don't understand WHY they want to put a 4th one in our little area, just defend their right to do so without interventionists funded by SEIU.

What, don't union workers have a right to try and defend union wage jobs? Walmart plans their stores with an eye to putting other stores out of business. They have destroyed millions of living wage jobs all over this country.

Why shouldn't unions be able to mount campaigns to protect those jobs? Or are you just opposed to people earning a living wage?

I am turned off by the foaming-at-the-mouth opposition to Walmart. Sure they offer crap minimum wage jobs. How much do you think the guy pumping your gas at the mini-mart on Interstate Avenue is being paid? Do you think he has stock options and medical?

If you want to try to bring down our entire capitalist economy, I might join you. Meanwhile, I believe people should be able to shop and work where they want.

BRAVO! BRAVO!

Ok guys there seems to be some misunderstandings here on economics. First of all being a blue does not mean being against freedom social or economic. Do not look at college textbooks for a definition of capitalism because when I was in college they taught that capitalism was fraud and theft, but this is not true. If needed, do not use words, but understandings. Would you want to live under a system where the powerful elite told you how to live, what to eat and how much you could earn and determine what your maximum standard of living should be or would you rather live in a system of equality where everyone has an equal chance to provide for their families despite social origin or belief or race? The later system has created in history much more prosperity than the former. Does this make sense?

BTW screw walmart that is not free market capitalism, it is government sponsored fraud, taxation and coercion. We pay for the massive roads and infrastructure to put that ugly box in our cities and subsidize it to destroy our work base here at home. This however does not mean we need to become commies slowing those who wish to achieve, invent & invest. the playing field must be even.

If Wal-Mart stocked its shelves with goods made in America rather than cheap Chinese crap, I'd have no problem shopping there.

It is certainly a personal choice where we shop. I 100% support a voluntary boycott of Walmart. I do not however support using government to stop them. I think if we simply stopped government from subsidizing them the problem would take care of itself. We should not have to spend a penny for Walmart to move into a city. Not one dime towards roads or infrastructure. I also wish the suppliers who have been paid late by walmart and thus lost their businesses as a result would sue them. This would help even the playing field.

".. turned off by the foaming-at-the-mouth opposition to Walmart..." Greg D we are not here to pleasure you. Feel free to be turned off by our disgust with Wally World.

t.a. has a unique literary gift, imho. I know few writers that you can think "we have not one thing in common", then on another post you think "that guy sees it from exactly the same point of view that I do".

Posted by: M.Y. | Dec 24, 2009 11:16:24 PM

If Wal-Mart stocked its shelves with goods made in America rather than cheap Chinese crap, I'd have no problem shopping there.

Using jj's metaphor, isn't that like saying, "if the guy on the street corner stopped slinging rock, i would buy what he had to offer next"?

Besides, the whole thing you mention is a bit of a dated concept. What exactly do you mean by "made in America"? Most likely you mean assembled in America, at best. I can think of almost no consumer item where we make all the components and assemble the finished product. Then there's the fact that there is no unary concept of product in reality. A major chip manufacturer may use only Idaho potatoes...except for the two months they import them from Peru. If a company based in Oregon does all its manufacturing in China, is that buying American? As stated above, most those "cheap Chinese goods" are vended by solid American brands (and most never wanted to go there, anyway). This seems to be addressing symptoms. Isn't the real problem that Wal-Mart would treat its suppliers so callously? You're saying you would rather have them abuse American corps than Chinese ones?

I understand your point, but I think the concept is largely something the public hangs onto because it is a convenient cognitive organizing point. Perhaps the best example reality in the 21st century would be Formula I racing. People care greatly about drivers' nationality. They work for a team, which also has strong national associations. There are few that see Schumaker driving for Porsche (purely hypothetical) as anything but German. Meanwhile, back in reality, there are a 1/2 dozen boutique engine manufacturers in central England that are making everyone's engines! It's really not a "German entry" v "English entry", it's the Spaniard driving for the corp with 60% of its holdings in Germany and a British engine versus the Englishman driving for the corp with 55% holdings in Italy and a British engine. Doesn't really map onto a primate "our side" v "their side" thinking.

Point taken Galen, though the uptake was difficult. Technically I think you're correct, but if you're going to be technical...notice in the previous paragraph how the fraud is in the nouns and the remedy is replacing them with verbs? The fraud is not in American business, it's in the English language. When the Normans basically said, "we are you", then had an absolutely oil and water social system, that great English language power of separating referent from description and attaching arbitrary emotional content to the referent was born. One only needs to watch late night TV in Africa to be struck at how they can translate Perry Mason into Kishwahili, but the commercial for "rock hard abs" switches to English. How many car commercials wouldn't at least dub it? It's in English because the marketing concepts, the fraud, is part of the syntax of the English language. It cannot be translated into Kishwahili. That is makes the English different than the Angles and Saxons. I can think of one euphemism in German. I can kind of think of one in Dutch, but it isn't really much of an euphemism.

That's a point Aaron made that jj made less delicately. Let's see if I can put it even less so. Wal-Mart attitude is a one sentence IQ test. It reveals how many moves ahead you are looking.

Posted by: Ricky | Dec 24, 2009 4:17:09 PM

Let's do everything we can do to avoid creating jobs in Portland!

See, eyes staring at feet. There was a 3 minute film one of the Gestalt psychologists made in the 1930s of a 3 year old boy and a 5 year old girl trying to sit down on a large rock. The boy couldn't do it, because he would approach it head on, and couldn't get up high enough to get his balance. The little girl (roughly same height) turned away from it as we would, and pushed herself up onto the rock. His point was that the boy didn't have the cognitive capacity, yet, to realize that he had to turn away from the goal in order to reach it. That is the same kind of thinking that says we have to reject these jobs to reach prosperity. Lots of little boys and girls don't have the cognitive capacity to understand that, yet.

Of course, this is America, home of the proud anti-intellectual. Thinking moves ahead isn't just not understood, it's despised by many. Think too many few moves ahead, relate it to what's in front of your face, and you will produce palpable discomfort and be characterized as,

Posted by: Greg D. | Dec 24, 2009 7:15:20 PM I am turned off by the foaming-at-the-mouth

Sorry for the lack of euphemisms. I'm aware that according to PC speech rules, that isn't intelligence, it's "connecting the dots". It does sound a lot nicer to say, "9/11 was a failure to connect the dots", as opposed to, "9/11 was an example of people and systems in a position to get it, not getting it, because they were too stupid".

Galen, an easy Google search shows the true current situation with the south Medford Walmart:

kdrv.com/news/local/147756

walmartwatch.com/.../medford_or_wal_mart_cancels_store_expansion_plans/

www.topix.com/.../medford-walmart-heads-towards-oregon-supreme-court

pacnwjay, I have no problem with honest union campaigning against an adversary such as Walmart. All I ask is that SEIU, UFCW and other unions be up front instead of hiding behind shadowy front operations. For an excellent book on these tactics read, The Death of a Thousand Cuts: Corporate Campaigns and the Attack on the Corporation by Jarol Manheim.

Thank for the links Kurt. I will study them to get the correct information. It is very important to me to present only factual information in true context. Bad information even if it is not relevant is still exactly that. Merry Christmas guys.

"Cheap crap made at low wages and sold at low wages while undermining local businesses is not a way to create quality communities. Many will want the cheap crap"

So its better to buy the cheap crap at mom-n-pops or IKEA? Especially when mom-n-pops pay no benes and lean on employees for a lot of free overtime. At least WalMart has enough glare they have to follow law and offer some benes.

I think you really want to address why we can't manufacture quality stuff here in the US instead of banging on retailers like WalMart who are willing to invest in Portland. Otherwise, we chase one more employer out of Portland and there are that many fewer jobs.

Besides, if you don't want the cheap crap don't buy it and mind your own business while others choose to.

Cheap crap? Really? Give me specifics.

Wal-Mart sells many of the same brands as other stores like Target, Fred Meyer, etc. (Kitchen supplies, office supplies, electronics, diapers, food, etc.)

Wal-Mart has made huge strides in recent years to repair its image, be more fair toward workers, and institute a "green building and usage program." http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3362519

Are they perfect? No. Are they trying? Yes. You guys need to give credit where credit is due.

What I don't understand is that so many of you on this blog are always promoting the unions, higher wages, and better benefits for workers. Yet, Wal-Mart makes it possible for many low-income earners to afford many necessities. Local does NOT always mean HIGHER quality, and it's often MORE expensive.

Try telling a Hispanic family on food stamps and whose children get help through head-start that they shouldn't shop at Wal-Mart and save themselves money. The hypocrisy here is insidious.

Jason, I've asked since October when t.a. interviewed the suit. I specifically stated that my experience was old. I have a simple question, that I can't seem to get a simple answer to. Is that still how they deal with suppliers? Is the other progress a diversion? We don't know until someone answers that question!

Could question, that "does anyone that works at the 82nd street store read this".

Wall Mart is corporate monopolist, hiding behind the veil of "free" market.

People are poor, they shop where they get the best deals, which is Wall Mart, mostly because everything they sell comes from China and they pay slave wages.

Economically poor people are generally less educated and therefore have no idea of what Wall Mart actually represents.

The American “free” market went out the window with the advent of the industrial revolution and the rise of the Federal Reserve banking system.

Today you see the same businesses in every town in America, the same boring chain stores owned by the same conglomerates. There seems to be no end to the greed of the executives/owners of these conglomerates.

What never seems to stop baffling me is that these “ultra rich” are not completely ignorant people. They must be aware of the suffering of the bulk of humanity that inhabits the planet, but yet they continue on their reckless pursuit of personal wealth?

I guess it’s really always been that way, a small elite controls most everything while the bulk of humanity suffers. Nothing has changed from the very dawn of man, except technology. The mind of men is still governed by the animal in us. Greed, lust for power, sex, etc.

Here is some background on Wall Mart, which didn’t use to be such a monstrous operation.

WHEN DID WALL MART TURN EVIL AMERICANS WILL BUY AMERICAN

this blog are always promoting the unions, higher wages, and better benefits for workers.<

The point is this, the "profit" can go to the guy doing the work or the owner of the capital.

When higher wages/benefits go to the people doing the work there is less profit for those who own the "capital".

Obviously, corporations don't work like that. The only goal they have is to maximize profit to the owners of the capital.

I don't think it takes a great noble humanitarian to see that most profit should go to the people doing the work, not the people sitting in their luxury houses enjoying a life style of the rich and famous who's only contribution is that they "own" the capital.

It's the same system as feudalism, with the titles changed and the background music different, but the outcome is the same.

The kings, nobles, counts, etc get everything while the peasants toil there lives away in misery.

Wal mart is always the busiest store in Salem and funny, I never see anyone there being held against their will. People shop there for a reason.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2009/dec/25/adams-may-be-warming-to-walmart/

I guess it’s really always been that way, a small elite controls most everything while the bulk of humanity suffers. Nothing has changed from the very dawn of man, except technology. The mind of men is still governed by the animal in us. Greed, lust for power, sex, etc.

You should look into the archeology around the Caral, Peru site. It is arguably the "mother city" that has been sought for so long. Right at the point where people first embraced "civilization", what was the motivation?

The standard spiel has been that it must have been defensive or to enshrine a privileged class. Caral shows no evidence of any of this. For a long time, it's sole raison d'etre seems to have been trade. There were priests, but they operated in parallel to society in general, instead of being lords. Lots of sex and drugs too. In fact, it's rationale for being wasn't much different than Las Vegas.

It was only when the population density reached a certain point, and people were being born that didn't have a role in society that the lordly priests and warfare emerged. That was still so long ago that we've come to confound "how man is" with "how man is over a critical population density".

It at least explains why the factors you decry are on the increase, while cultural intelligence, in general, is on the increase as well. The former is driven by population increases.

Today is a great time to reflect on this. Suddenly doubling the population density (or worse) of your humble abode, how did people behave?

"They shop at WalMart because advertising makes them "feel" like they're getting a better deal "

Puh-leeze, it's a free market and if they are really paying more than at another place, then they'll go to that other place. People do communicate in other ways than social networking sites.

YOu need to give people more credit since they are obviously not held in the thrall of advertising like you are.

Then again, Obama/Reid/Pelosi keep telling us what a great deal this haalth abomination is that they pased, them mayne advertising does work on weaker minds.

Puh-leeze, it's a free market and if they are really paying more than at another place, then they'll go to that other place. People do communicate in other ways than social networking sites.

You can't really get it, can you? If a guy tries to sell me a stereo out of his trunk and it's stolen, the police come questioning me. Wal-Mart effectively tell their suppliers to go steal a stereo and it's "free market". That post about moves ahead hit the nail on the head. Dumb people only see the next move.

BTW, t.a. likely isn't listening. Anyone that doesn't sign their full name and agree with him is a whiner, a troll, and pathetic. Dem arrogance starts at the grass roots!

From Facebook: Carla Axtman The whiners are out in force today. #blueoregon December 19 at 1:03pm via Twitter 2 people like this.

it's rather precious being insulted viciously by people who won't even identify themselves. you know who i am; i don't separate myself from my opinions. the cowards who refuse to stand by their own words ... pathetic.

I have an idea. Everybody use your name- just like it appears on your SS card- and when the aforementioned makes your life hell, sue Mandate Media. BTW, genius, "t.a." isn't a name. Todd .

"Wal-Mart effectively tell their suppliers to go steal a stereo and it's "free market"."

Um, I'd make a citizens arrest then. If you are going to accuse a company that bargains the hardest and passes the savings to its customers of being thiefs, then we really are lost. What's Costco then? They drive hard bargains and pass those savings onto customers.

I guess I don't get "it".

I'd really love to know what you think of the group we have in Congress who are supposedly looking out for us.

I happen to shop at Costco and Walmart. I will continue to do so. I have one gripe with the discussion going on here. There is no free market! Probably never was. Probably never will be. And for what it is worth, in many of the small towns that Walmart has or will put stores the local government gives them a deal on the land or taxes and it is not just Walmart that gets these deals. That is the sort of crap that hurts small business in America.

Posted by: Steve Marx | Dec 26, 2009 7:30:43 AM

Um, I'd make a citizens arrest then. If you are going to accuse a company that bargains the hardest and passes the savings to its customers of being thiefs, then we really are lost. What's Costco then? They drive hard bargains and pass those savings onto customers.

Um, try it. The PPB will book you for harassment, if you don't have vid and two witnesses.

Ironically, I saw a guy stop a manager from physically intimidating a supplier once, and he DID call the police. The police waited on the main drag, while Wal-Mart security threw him bodily out of the building. Explain to the Vlasic and Rubbermaid workers, that don't have your wisdumb, how destroying their companies was just aggresively working to give peeps the lowest price. Next time you see an elderly "greeter", thank them for taking 1/2 time positions, to save Wal-Mart from benefits, since you know that it is more important than your learning how to compare prices and see they aren't saving you money.

Let's be real though. The average American does not give a shit about business ethics, if the bottom line is in play. That's why we're in Iraq! And just like Iraq, it doesn't matter if it actually DOESN'T help the bottom line. Powerful males said it. We like to follow. Wal-Mart: for the ape in all of us!

The lowest ethics. Everyday. We're Americans. We don't have to give a shit!

I agree Sal. I shop at Costco. There's nothing wrong with being aggressive. But comparing Wal-Mart to Costco is like comparing Blackwater to the natives at Little Big Horn. Both are trying to win a battle. Methods count. Context counts.

If you've got the cognitive capacity to see it.

If they're really a model of corporate citizenship, the Chain-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named will pay for a new bridge to handle traffic from the rest of Vancouver that doesn't already shop at Hayden Island

"This has contrtibuted greatly to the decline of main streets all over rural America."

I see and the fact that rural populations have been declining for a long time has nothing to do with it?

Explain to me again why Target is so much better? Why are teh mom-n-pops that make employees work of the books and give 0 benes better?

Walmart offers jobs and benes to employees, contributes to the tax base and will build a store and hire more construction workers (at least that's the justification CoP uses for a lot of money-wasting projects.)

I am not getting your gas station analogy. No matterwhere they buy gas, if that is how they drive they'll waste it no matter if they buy gas at sacntioned gas stations.

If all the people here know what is so good for the consumers of Oregon, then maybe you should open up your own retail outlet, get a little experience in the real-world and see if you can do better.

WalMart offers the same stuff at a better price and people go there. Perhaps we should pass a law that states everyone must sell the WIdget X at $Y?

OK, I'll go slow. If they are wasteful drivers, then paying $0.01 less per gallon will not change that or where they buy gas. So I am missing your metaphor otherwise.

Besides you are going to fix thousands of years of "training" to get people to stopp looking for the best price how?

"I'm disputing this particular point. People are not sophisticated consumers, "

Actually help me on this one also, you are saying people are unsophisticated and govt is smarter than they are? This is all becasue they look for lower prices on teh same thing at different stores?

How would you suggest we make them sophisticated then?

I think most of you blues are really confused people. It would be better to welcome a Walmart or two in the region and get rid of Adams, Leonard and a bunch of other horrific leaders.

Please somebody here help me understand why it is a great idea to shell out million$$ to make a soccer stadium out of PGE Park and create some part time jobs; yet fight Walmart and 300 retail jobs as well as over 200 construction jobs?

help me here.

I want to work online .. There are some thin if the legitimate work as a line there. Most are sites and marketing study for the site owner rich, not you. The only thing is true legitimacy Ebay, selling things you already own part time work

Wal-Mart sells the same items all other stores do. Your iPod was made in China. So was your computer, your television, and I bet 95% of your clothing and household items. The other 5% was made in SE Asia.

Better sell all those items, since you don't want to contribute to unethical business models. You'll be naked and sitting in the dark, cursing big, bad Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the USA. The starting pay for a Wal-Mart associate is well over the Oregon Minimum Wage.

You should be complaining about what the restaurant industry in Portland pays it's workers and how poorly they are treated, and it doesn't matter if it's a small, local eatery or a large chain.

So do you consider "Charles Brooks" the same, Ricky? (WTF is an editor?!?) Jobs, jobs jobs. His is an outright con. Could go to jail. Wal-Mart made sure they tiptoed around the legalities. From this discussion we can only conlclude that most Americans see that as good business.

And yeah, most restaurants suck too.

Since so few have no problem with cajoling suppliers into moving production abroad, that it's just smart, I have a modest proposal. Wouldn't it be better if the USDA used the supplemental assitance program (food stamps) to shore up business in low income neighborhoods? Why not make FS so that you can only use it in Lents, say? Most poor live in poor neighborhoods...

Answer: it's deeply unamerican. So is Wal-Mart.

Costco doesn't deflate the argument; it proves the point! Identical to Wal-Mart, except that it is employee owned. And no probs. QED: it's all Wal-Mart's management practices!

What is most instructive, is that, as Aaron pointed out, management at WM has never claimed the management culture has changed. All those that say, "it probably isn't like that anymore" are demonstrating trust. That drive to trust and be in the dept of a great person, is base primate, hard-wired social response. T.A. is talking about an engineered society. Two facts you cannot duck. Your approach is a step backward, based on the history of every known civilization. Second, all this talk of "but people want" is specious. If you just ask people how happy they are with their lives, there is a strong correlation between a society's being engineered and positive satisfaction. That is universal and self-reported. The irony is that all those right wing dittoheads are actually striving to create the very monopolistic, gray, souless, Soviet like society that decry, when they endorse laissez-faire city planning.

Costco is not employee owned, although they may have some sort of employee stock option plan. It trades on Nasdaq and was at about $60.00 per share on Thursday. The market has punished Costco stock periodically for what the Wall Street gurus consider "excessive employee compensation and benefits". To the credit of the current Costco CEO - James Sinegal - he appears to care as much about his employees as he does the price of Costco stock and he has consistently resisted Wall Street suggestions that he reduce salary and benefits for employees.

I don't think you can compare Costco to Walmart. Costco has started accepting food stamps and offers some low prices, but much of their merchandise (and target demographic) is at the higher end of the scale with $20.00 per pound Italian cheese, gourmet wine, and out-of-season produce air freighted in from around the world.

"I don't think you can compare Costco to Walmart."

I'll agree that COstco seems to treat its employees better, however, if you are a vendor, I think CostCo plays hardball just as well as WalMart does.

CostCo's advanatage is that $/sale are a lot higher and they need less employees/customer since the merchanduse is usually one flavor and one size (take-it-or-leave-it albeit at a very good price.)

"I don't think you can compare Costco to Walmart."

One more thing, COstCo screens their clients better than WalWamrt who will take anyone regardless of socio-econimc status, if they have the money (plus point?)

I think it's Bi-Mart that's employee owned, although I don't know if that's certain stores or if it's the whole company. I do know that the Bi-Mart in Molalla has or has had a banner that says "Employee owned".

Thanks, Joanne, I was thinking one thing and wrote another. I meant Bi-mart!

(What's with all the Turkish porn links?)