 |
More Recent Posts | |
Albert Kaufman |
|
Guest Column |
|
Kari Chisholm |
|
Kari Chisholm |
Final pre-census estimate: Oregon's getting a sixth congressional seat |
Albert Kaufman |
Polluted by Money - How corporate cash corrupted one of the greenest states in America |
Guest Column |
|
Albert Kaufman |
Our Democrat Representatives in Action - What's on your wish list? |
Kari Chisholm |
|
Guest Column |
|
Kari Chisholm |
|
connect with blueoregon
Our Featured Action
To Republicans in Congress and in state capitals across the country: It's time to refuse the NRA's support and their money. And donations received in the past should be donated to organizations supporting the survivors of gun violence.
This petition sponsored by BlueOregon Action. (You may always unsubscribe, of course.) Learn more.
| Most Recent Posts | |
Albert Kaufman |
|
Guest Column |
|
Kari Chisholm |
|
Kari Chisholm |
Final pre-census estimate: Oregon's getting a sixth congressional seat |
Albert Kaufman |
Polluted by Money - How corporate cash corrupted one of the greenest states in America |
Guest Column |
|
Albert Kaufman |
Our Democrat Representatives in Action - What's on your wish list? |
Kari Chisholm |
|
Guest Column |
|
Kari Chisholm |
|
Guest Columns
Got something to say? We want a diversity of voices 'round the water cooler. Submit your guest column here.
10:29 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
i'm not going to claim this is equivalent, but since i turned 40, i have had an increasingly difficult time getting job interviews. i'm talking about administrative jobs for which i am more than qualified and have a good work record. i know my age, and the expectations of what a man of my age "should" be doing, work against me. interviews i had no trouble getting in my 30s disappeared. i can only imagine what facing racism (or sexism, or any other overt -ism) must be like. at least i have options that let me deal with agist attitudes; if the issues was my skin color, i'm not really sure how i'd react. what would i do if i knew people were not going to hire me because of that? i have no idea.
we are so far from "post" anything. pretending we are is arrogant and stupid.
10:44 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
t.a. - What do you suppose they mean when the job description includes "perfect for a recent graduate"?
Jo Ann - Not surprised to here this. If someone is involved in any kind of activism, listing that is going to hurt you in finding a job and definitely keep you out of certain companies altogether. If your previous employer was something with a name like "Jobs With Justice" then God help you--you'll be pegged as a trouble-maker for sure.
In all seriousness, given the way HR departments run Internet searches on any applicant, you may find this recent post of yours makes YOU permanently unemployed. Really.
10:48 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
Hi ta, yes there are a lot of less than legal ways folks use to discriminate. Its sad that we can't get beyond these "ism".
10:49 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
The problem is for me that I simply can't see what we can possibly do about this. Even raising awareness, as Ms. Bowman is capably doing here, doesn't solve the problem. If racists felt guilty about racism, they wouldn't do it.
Personally, the "whitening" of the resume, seems to be a perfectly reasonable response. It's a lot easier to not confront one's own racism when dealing with a massive stack of papers - it's much harder when in person after you've brought them in for an interview.
(You also have to recognize that in an organization, the person doing the hiring might not have the prejudice - it might be someone else who acts as an initial filter.)
Dec 17, '09
This has almost nothing to do with blacks. In general, there are lots of profiles that are illegally discriminated against. If you want to pick out a group that is unfairly targeted in this way, and have to spin their resume (and have been for 200 years), consider age.
I help low income folks polish their resume, and ghost calls to help them sound professional. While people get concerned about all kinds of things, and spin their resume, I have not seen the same level of probing where race is concerned as with age. The worse I've ever heard from blatantly not hiding race is a pregnant pause and a "hmmmm". To be sure, offers often aren't forthcoming, and I agree, illegal, despicable, race related hiring decisions continue to happen.
But, just last week, I was listening to a call, and I cannot believe the level of probing about age that went on. The candidate had left the graduation year off her B.A. degree. For jobs more than 10 years old, she had only put the name of the corporation. The recruiter kept coming back to all kinds of ways to pin the college year down. Once you have satisfied yourself that the candidate is qualified (and he did), why continue talking about a 25 year old college degree, unless you particularly care about the 25 years? The probing was shameless.
Last summer, I saw a case where a 45 year old guy rode his mountain bike to an interview, as it abutted his vacation, and the employer had said "OK". He rode it from Mt. Hood to downtown Portland. You know what he was asked (assistant manager at a quick food sandwich joint)? "Don't you think you're too old for this job"? Can you conceive of a person of color, applying as an assistant manager, being asked, "do you think a black person can do this job"? Age related discrimination is far more prevalent and blatant.
Pro bono is a myth and if it isn't a physical injury forget about cases taken on contingency. They bank on the fact that you don't have the funds to prosecute, Fed standards are weak, you can't roll your own case in Federal court and it's your word against theirs.
Another consideration would be that, where quotas are involved, the economic downturn helps minorities. If you are only hiring 2 people, instead of 12, and your quota is 1/3 minorities, you're likely to make that one of the two, rather than have a big fat goose egg on your total, even though that is 50% more than what you require.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, this is what separates Dems from progressives. Reps say, "I've got mine; screw you". Dems say, "Let's identify a group that is being treated unjustly and enfranchise them". Progressives say, "No one gets ahead until everyone gets ahead". In every case, the Dem strategy is a weak version of the progressive position, designed to enfranchise a voting block, more than than aid the victim. We saw the same spectacle with the family leave act. Americans have too little time off, full stop. Rather than address that we pick out a likely constituency, families, and throw them a freebie to shore up their votes, in the name of social justice. The disrespect that progressives caught on that one let us know just what the game is.
Dec 17, '09
That's funny, that being long winded I couldn't even get that out before t.a. and Vu made the same point.
While I agree with Vu, I would add that those "social justice" jobs are THE WORST age discriminators. I have interviewed with almost every fortune 500 and more tiny corps, and have never been told what I was by OSPIRG. About the 4th time I applied for something that I was totally qualified for, only to barely get a polite 15 minutes, I asked straight out, "what is your 'ideal candidate' profile". "Sorry, that's proprietary information".
I won't venture to suggest what is obviously their "ideal candidate". I've met one over 40 working at Trader Joe's. I asked her how she did it. She started with them years ago in Monrovia, and moved to Portland.
All you have to do is sit in on hiring decisions. Folks like t.a. communicate that they have experience and will do almost anything for a position. Meanwhile many gen X applicants will literally start with the words, "I require...". X gets the job. That is attributable only to the fact that youth is the commodity being purchased.
11:09 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
Lord Beaverbrook-are you kidding me? yes age is an issue and certainly if blacks get to an interview they would not be asked if a black person can do the job. However you missed the entire point of the post-they don't get that opportunity to be rejected in person!
With Black unemployment at 24% in Oregon, there are no Black people getting a job due to quotas-they don't exist in progressive Oregon!
Dec 17, '09
And sex discrimination isn't rampant as well? Reverse, I mean. I've run my own sole proprietorship for 15 years. There is no office management task I have not done and cannot do. If I insist on working in my area of expertise, I will never get a job. Every "office manager" position- anything with the word 'phone'- will be filled by a cute young female. Would you notice if every cable guy in the world were white? So, why don't you notice that every phone mangler is female?
I've made these points before here. Jimmy Carter introduced leg that would have required a typing test for secretaries. Face validity would have been illegal.
This is the world we got instead. Executive compensation ballooned when the progressive tack was rejected. Drug testing replaced skills testing. You cannot allow unvalidated, political urine testing, and then complain that there is still discrimination in hiring!
To be fair, who wants a hairy, dirty hippy greeting customers? It will never matter what we can do for the bottom line. Remember that next time you hear about the almighty dollar. Most managers are building their ego, not the bottom line. Given the realities, you do or don't get a job based on the following:
Age, race...you name it, are not the issue, per se. They are leveraged because they violate one of the three criteria. The systemic problem is that pretty much anything goes, as long as you do it to everybody.
Dec 17, '09
However you missed the entire point of the post-they don't get that opportunity to be rejected in person!
You're seriously saying that it's easier to tell race than age from a resume? Obviously, he's saying that the same applies, but to a much greater degree. Having finished 2nd, half a dozen times with the State, I don't know that when you're discriminated against makes much of a diff when the bottom line is no job.
I would add my pet peeve, jobs that employ so many illegals that you have to speak Spanish as a "safety measure". It's bogus and many can communicate well enough in Spanish (and they in English). It's just a filter to get people that they have something over on. That's why there's an inverse relationship between urine testing and salary. Have to eliminate the potential free thinkers!
11:28 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
This post raises several important points, not the least of which is that among the most difficult forms of discrimination to prove, "failure to hire" is the hardest.
Once on the job it is easier to prove disparate treatment than it is to demonstrate that you weren't chosen for an initial interview based on an application that ostensibly includes no racial identification.
It is unfortunate in this day that people would feel they have to "whiten their resume" in the hope of at least getting an interview, but I certainly don't blame anyone for trying. In a sense, the attempt itself indicates that the job applicant hopes that, in an interview, the underlying prejudice can be overcome so it isn't a complete cop-out on his or her part.
Despite the laws outlawing discrimination, getting through the door still remains the toughest challenge for victims of prejudice.
11:50 a.m.
Dec 17, '09
one ray of hope: our children. my kids were raised with kids of various ethnicities, literally from all over the world. they went to school with GLBT kids (and had parents who actively supported M9 & M13). for them, "difference" is normal. yes, they'll have various issues to deal with (my older son has some really irritating political views right now, but then again, in my dad's eyes, i'm going to hell). but both of my sons are a step in human evolution in this regard. and they have many friends who share the same characteristic (oh, and i should add, for them, "woman" is a class of normal, too).
if we raise our kids right, ensure that schools are diverse and as free of overt -ism'ing ag as possible (can't legislate on thoughts, but we can act on actions), and if we are making a sincere effort soceitally and politically to make changes to our past legacies; then, i believe, we will see a better future coming to life in our children and grandchildren. and given how much things have changed for the better in the past century through just this sort of thing, i believe hope is a better attitude than despair.
but only if we remain diligent and open to all that needs to change.
Dec 17, '09
It struck me that the article set the 'whitening' practice in the context of quotas.
(Applicants hiding their race) "seemed startling somehow, maybe because of the popular perception that affirmative action still confers significant advantages to black job candidates, a perception that is not borne out in studies."
Public perception, in our mythical post-racial era, most likely includes a belief that people of color benefit from quotas and 'set-asides' in education, employment and the award of contracts.
The Applied Research Center, in their report Race and Recession, dispels all doubt about disparities in employment with some credible research.
ARC offers a few solutions, based on their analysis.
"Expand the use of Racial Equity Impact Assessments for public planning and policy so that we can anticipate and prevent racial inequities before adoption of new policies and practices. This would provide a mechanism to consciously and systematically address racial inequities proactively during the policymaking process."
The way things stand now, most Americans sense that racial justice is being implemented through preferences in hiring and college recruitment. It fosters our complacency. Others are incensed, and use this nonexistent concept of remediation-through-quotas in depictions of reverse discrimination. The sad truth is that our nation is not advancing the position of segments of the population ... based on their perceived race. In fact, racism remains entrenched; discrimination is woven into the fabric of who we hire, who we educate and who we heal.
Those of you in power need to think about mechanisms which analyze and report disparities. I think a majority in the electorate will continue to press for equal protections under the law, but tools like racial equity impact assesments can help us be proactive to implement policy (in civic and corporate governance) that will give the US the advantages that diversity offers.
12:45 p.m.
Dec 17, '09
if we raise our kids right....we will see a better future coming to life in our children and grandchildren.... and given how much things have changed for the better in the past century through just this sort of thing.....
So there's the whole thing in a nutshell.
-
-
<hr/>Keep calling out discriminatory behavior (Jo Ann)
Raise and educate children to post-racdail ideals (TA)\
My brother-in-law remarried a few years ago and his wife has a couple of teenagers that are half-african american and half Filipino.
I'd be willing to bet that Jo Ann would get a lot of blank stares (like I did) in attempting to disucss institutional racism with themk, because they've been raised and schooled as TA advises.
Some of the worst of this stuff is generational, and it'll tak a die-off to see real lasting improvement.
Dec 17, '09
The need of "whitening" ones identity has a long tradition in the United States. It was used by any number of immigrants groups who would change their names (both first and/or last names) to hide their origins and allow them a foot in the door. One likes to think there is progress,but some things don't seem to change.
Dec 17, '09
In this economy all job seekers are being discriminated against. Some not enough experience, some too much, too old, too youth, white, black, asian, language skills, height, weight, dress, relation, not related, not enough education, too much education, personality, references, criminal history, credit history and recent work history.
If a individual fears others impression of themselves so much they conceal their name that says more about the individual then the employer.
Dec 17, '09
It's called "Michael Jackson Self Hate Syndrome". Not regular old self-haters, they suffer from a "disease". So what's the proposal? A set-aside? Entitlement? Tip the playing field? Obama is not proof it's over. I always said we would have a black man as Prez before a white woman, and we have Sarah Palin to thank for his Presidency!
Most, I think, agree with t.a. that race is real discrimination and that, even if you suffer age discrimination, it's not what we care to address when discussing social policy! Or sex, or weight, or any of that other crap. Race, ethnicity and sexual preference...get those right and all else will follow. Viva el Houston! (Kar-lock was right once!)
Questioning that Trader Joe's is a good liberal organization is jsut as crazy as what these right wing dittoheds post. People used to be with the program more on here!
Dec 17, '09
Pat:
"if we raise our kids right....we will see a better future coming to life in our children and grandchildren ..."
It is almost as if we have to raise the employers' children well.
I attended Carnegie Mellon Univesity, and developed the distinct sense that it was an institution where captains of industry sent their sons to prepare them to take over in the practice of generating wealth. I sense that inherited wealth, and structuring society to perpetuate economic advantages for those already rich, have left America thinking that opportunities for intergenerational, upward economic mobility are greater than they really are.
People of color are, as a class, being deprived of opportunities to advance themselves. Wages in America's entire middle class have been stagnant for a generation or more.
While it is well and good that we should convey the dynamic of valuing equality and honoring diversity to our children, it is up to THIS GENERATION to develop mechanisms that fulfill Dr. King's vision ... that race will not be a determinant for who gets to advance.
In seeking to eliminate racial disparities in the here and now, we will do much for the general citizenry ... encouraging ALL who are disenfranchised ... to advocate for equitable access to opportunity and social benefits. Enlightened self interest should bring advantages to many who are being excluded for reasons other than their skin color.
Dec 17, '09
"And there's no reason, other than the will to believe, to expect that Obama would be any better [than McCain], and it's entirely likely that in some ways - including those bearing on racial justice - he'll be worse, again by moving the boundaries of thinkable liberalism that much farther to the right.
"...what makes the Dems every four years 'better' is always something that the hacks and yuppies are likely to imagine getting if they win, and their disgusting moralizing about the imperative to vote for their 'lesser evil'...means 'I may get what's important for me, but you have to recognize that what you need is naïve or impractical' -- is all about bullying the rest of us into believing we have an obligation to vote for what's good for them." ---(Adolph Reed, Jr., Where Obamaism Seems to be Going, http://tns.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/where-obamaism-seems-be-going)
Dec 17, '09
In my long and boring career I have sat in various executive sessions where it was suggested that the organization "really needed to hire a ____". It does not matter how you fill in the blank - I have heard the same suggestion as to people of color, Jewish people, and most recently people of Chinese origin. In each case, the organization was not concerned with the personal merit of the potential "hire" but was concerned with meeting some outward public perception of diversity for marketing or publicity or whatever. Most recently the company wanted to penetrate the Chinese market and thought that having people of Chinese ancestry on the payroll - not as translators or traveling representatives but just as "Chinese" - would somehow help that effort. The whole concept of hiring (or not hiring) people based upon race, creed, color, etc. is repugnant to me. Discrimination based on age or sexual orientation is the same problem. I wish we lived in the 21st Century. Oh wait.
Dec 17, '09
I'm a minority who whitens my resume. I whiten my resume for one very simple reason: I don't want my race to hurt or help my chances at getting a job, I want to get hired or not hired for my merits or lack thereof. I know that in some situations a employer might see that I am a minority and might not hire me for that reason or they might hire me for that reason. Its sad that I have to hide my race in order to ensure that it is not a factor in employment decisions and I really hope that we can move towards a time where there is not need to whiten a resume.
Dec 17, '09
I don't want my race to hurt or help my chances at getting a job, I want to get hired or not hired for my merits or lack thereof.
But, after being selected as the best candidate out of a huge pool, I'll drop my pants on command and pee into a cup to prove I'm still "qualified"!
As ta pointed out, your "merits" fade after 40.
Dec 17, '09
This from 2003.
Dec 17, '09
[Racist crap deleted. -editor.]
Dec 17, '09
[Racist crap deleted. -editor.]
Dec 19, '09
Posted by: Jo Ann Bowman | Dec 17, 2009 11:09:37 AM
Lord Beaverbrook-are you kidding me? yes age is an issue and certainly if blacks get to an interview they would not be asked if a black person can do the job. However you missed the entire point of the post-they don't get that opportunity to be rejected in person!
You're serious. OK. Calibrate expectations. Actually, I can't get my head around this. You're saying that discriminating against someone because they might sound black is a bigger prob than being asked a blatantly discriminatory question to your face? Since you grant that it would never be asked of a black person, isn't it just a tad bit obvious that the person that will be asked that suffers far more from having the resume read between the lines? They can ask you straight out, "how old are you". You can decline race.
Reps say, "I've got mine; screw you". Dems say, "Let's identify a group that is being treated unjustly and enfranchise them". Progressives say, "No one gets ahead until everyone gets ahead". In every case, the Dem strategy is a weak version of the progressive position, designed to enfranchise a voting block, more than than aid the victim.
No, this is "I might not be getting all of mine, screw everyone".
Posted by: Ricky | Dec 17, 2009 7:42:46 PM
This from 2003.
Interesting. I will admit to doing that with "gen X names". You know, the Cody and Hailee's of the world. Has nothing to do with age discrimination. The article pointed out that an "african name", is an indication that the child is raised with different cultural traditions. And that's the point about gen Xer's parents. When they pull a name out of their ass, they're also planning to rewrite cultural tradition from scratch. That's real likely to produce anything of value. Unfortunately most those parents spent longer thinking up the name than they ever spend communicating any kind of cultural values to their whelps. Stands to reason. How bright can you be to respond to Reagan's "it's morning in America", by saying, "yeah, makes me feel hopeful; lets have a kid"?
Meanwhile many gen X applicants will literally start with the words, "I require..."
So true. God, I hate that. I interrupt them right there and add, "another position to interview for. I'll see what I can do. Thanks. Good-bye."
So what's the proposal? A set-aside? Entitlement? Tip the playing field?
What IS the point? Is there a proposal on the table? I've lived in 10 different countries and I'm telling you that there are as many racists wherever. It's like the O.J. case. Played as race, it was about money. Same deal. Played as race, this is about stupidity. You're as likely to hear "get the stranger", "whatever for the whomevers" as much in the ghetto as in the UK as in the boardroom. There are a lot of stupid people. Population pressure doesn't help. Bottom line is that if every woman had the equivalent of a high school degree in the world, both phenomenon would improve.
If minorities are educated as well, companies that discriminate to hire dumb whites will be hung on their own petard. Call it the "evangelical website effect". Ever noticed how lame most far right websites are? It's because anyone dumb enough to believe that isn't smart enough to put together a decent website. Same with companies. Dumb doesn't work. Ask Wal-Mart. Ask anyone from one of America's ex great industries. They will be the first to tell you, "we were stupid and we refused to learn".
Dec 19, '09
Bingo! We have a winner. They don't discriminate because of the color of their skin, but because of the "cultural values". This is why the point about age is valid. The person that says, "I would rather not work with a black, as I'm not", is no more racist than the one that says, "I would rather work with someone my own age, because it sounds more fun". That was the point about face validity, way up top. Face validity is legal. That is a relic of stone age thinking.
Concrete example. True story. An American, black contractor, named Andruw Jefferson Davis Roosevelt Franklin was working in the UK for an American company, and was asked to work in the Mumbai office for a while. He was warned about racism there. In Anglo-Indian style, he started giving his name as AJDR Franklin. Many Indians have a gazillion names, and they do this all the time. It hearkens back to the Raj, and they see that as a "cool culture". AJDR Franklin, far from being a mere whitewash, is a very, very high status sounding name.
This is where the exception should be taken, that the culture is indicted; it is often not personal. I should know. My name (Pakistani) has been the "butt" of more than a few jokes.
Dec 19, '09
My girlfriend has a friend whose name is "Rhonda Jackson" and she says she thinks her "Black sounding" name makes it hard for her to get her foot in the door.
I'm going to repost aboout white-washed resumes.
Dec 20, '09
It's so complicated. If you're biracial, you may "pass" for white but still lack some of the privilege at times. Your hair may be too nappy (been told this throughout my life) I've been told I look too angry when I'm not thinking about anything at all.
Anyone who's either Muslim or South Asian can receive Islamophobic or anti-Arab prejudice. There's a lot of variations.
In fact, being biracial can sucks even more because you own't fit in with either race. People do as a general guidline pull strongly towards those they most resemble. Not always--no one's forced. But it happens. In a lily-white liberal state like Oregon, biracial children are more frequent but less common.