Truth in advertising
Carla Axtman
Every time I watch "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", there's a certain quote in the movie that always makes me chuckle:
Indiana Jones: Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.
"Truth" is most certainly in the eye of the beholder. But sometimes "beholders" stretch it so far as to be ridiculous.
Take this story on the retirement of Andy Duyck from the Washington County Commission, for example:
In reality, he more often shifts from one side of the political spectrum to the other, lining up with the two more liberal commissioners -- Desari Strader and Dick Schouten -- on farmland and open space but with moderates (Tom) Brian and Roy Rogers on regulation and property rights.
Having watched this Commission for the last few years, especially as a resident, this paragraph is laughable. The only people that would consider Tom Brian and Roy Rogers "moderates" are hard-right conservatives. That label would be more appropriately given to Desari Strader. The only person on the Washington County Commission who could possibly be considered "liberal" is Dick Schouten.
The latest example of this dynamic can be seen in the urban and rural reserves decision process at the Washington County level. Here's how the mid-December public hearing on the matter was reported:
The entire Metro Council was in Hillsboro Tuesday, observing a hearing of the Washington County Commission on reserves. About 30 people testified at the hearing before commission chairman Tom Brian closed the hearing because of time. It was unclear how many people had signed up to testify and were unable to because of Brian’s decision; of those who did testify, 17 spoke in favor of more urban reserves, and 10 spoke in favor of larger rural reserves.Only one county commissioner, Dick Schouten, called for a dramatic reduction in rural reserves acreage. He asked for the county to scale back its requests for urban reserves north of Hillsboro, north of Cornelius and southeast of Beaverton.
Commissioner Desari Strader gave a more nuanced position, agreeing with some of Schouten’s suggestions for a scale back but also pointing out how important it was that Intel chose Hillsboro as a major base of operations in the 1980s.
“I am a Gen-X’er sitting here with an awful look to the future without a lot of hopes for jobs,” said Strader, 41. “It takes us back to the 1980s, when as a kid growing up in this state with a lot of unemployed parents, we were very thankful when Intel landed here.”
Brian, along with Commissioners Andy Duyck and Roy Rogers, generally supported the Bragdon and Hosticka map.
Duyck, Rogers and Brian, all in a block. Strader the moderate on the fence and Schouten asking for more rural reserves.
And Strader's comment about Intel? Yeesh. What a slap in the face to farmers. And where's the demand by Strader and the rest of the Commission to work with the vast amount of land already inside the Urban Growth Boundary..and the need to build up in Hillsboro and Beaverton? There's no "liberal" here.
Unless you're a Dick Armey sycophantic teabagger--then yeah, Duyck's a "moderate".
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Jan 3, '10
Carla, thanks for proving your own thesis that truth is in the eye of the beholder. You state that briliiantly and then go on to belittle the 'facts' that do not fit your preconcieved notions. Labels and becoming a demogouge do not fit your once open style.
As one who knows NONE of the participants or their past psitions, I found:
Again an excellent treatise on the subject and perhaps even a better rallying cry for the NAV who more and more are opting out of both camps on the extreme.
11:39 a.m.
Jan 3, '10
Kurt:
Therefore demonstrating my thesis that Strader is indeed the "moderate". Even in your own effort to belittle my point, you prove it.
I never said that Brian was a "teabagging conservative". The story refers to him as a moderate, along with Duyck and Rogers. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL, Kurt.
3.Kurt, the "community-at-large" in this story is Washington County. Residents here have been polled to overwhelmingly support greater rural reserves and more density inside the UGB. You were saying?
4.Agreed. But so far you've done nothing to demonstrate exactly how my "truth" is in error.
Carry on. :)
Jan 3, '10
Yes reading is FUNDAMENTAL, I'm pretty good at readoing for both content and consistency. I used to read your posts for an open dialogue, a witty turn of phrase and the occasional 70's-80's rock/pop song phrase. Unfortunately I find myself more and more reading your posts for the cantankerous, unyielding and demonstrably unyielding ideas of the extreme. This is much the same way I read Hannity, Dr. Laura and Ann Coulter.
Jan 3, '10
Looks like Kurt is projecting.
Jan 3, '10
Carla, why is it whatever your definitions are for "liberal", "moderate", or "conservative" not even recognizable? Making up definitions, or I suppose adopting the brain-dead memes that pass around here amongst the blue-moron set as definitions to prove a point, are we? Well at least you didn't through in the far-too-overworked buzzword "progressive" too.
12:34 p.m.
Jan 3, '10
Kurt,
You say that you're pretty good at reading for both content and consistency. Keeping that in mind, perhaps you can explain to me how you derive Brian = tea bagging conservative from this line in Carla's post:
The only people that would consider Tom Brian and Roy Rogers "moderates" are hard-right conservatives.
I don't see how one can avoid the seemingly obvious conclussion that Carla is placing Brian (and Rogers) to the LEFT of tea bagging conservatives with that sentence.
And is it not a fundamental premise of English construction that the preceeding text provides context for what follows, up to and including the "closing line" to which you allude?
Where is the error in my reasoning?
Jan 3, '10
Why is US politics more hung up on labeling than on the positions? Do you vote labels? OK, I suppose you might. There's the prob.
2. I never said that Brian was a "teabagging conservative". The story refers to him as a moderate, along with Duyck and Rogers. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL, Kurt.
This kind of constant rudeness is beyond the pale, and I would invite you to join me in boycotting Carla's posts until she shows a modicum of respect for the people that make her position possible.
Jan 3, '10
This post is more than a tad bit ironic given Carla calls BlueOregon and its political philosophy "Progressive."
2:08 p.m.
Jan 3, '10
This kind of constant rudeness is beyond the pale, and I would invite you to join me in boycotting Carla's posts until she shows a modicum of respect for the people that make her position possible.
Speaking of rude...someone "makes" my position, possible? Who, pray tell, are these elusive folks?
I will continue to write and comment as I see fit. Those who dish it out, such as yourself, but can't take it are hardly worth the effort.
The constant whining from those who comment rudely and nastily and then act shocked and dismayed when they think it comes from others are tedious and annoying at best, silly and destructive at worst.
And then again, if you don't like what I write or how I write it, that little "x" at the upper right hand corner of your window should fix your problem nicely.
Now...back to the topic.
Jan 3, '10
Carla, I forbid you from expressing your opinion on a blog until you fall in line with all the readers who pay nothing for the privilege of reading it and feel they must put words in your mouth, without even taking the time to run a spell check before they click POST. And just imagine the havoc in the blogosphere if Jiang Lee of Reed College continues to boycott you! Oh, the humanity! Until you see the light I insist you be restricted to the Free Speech Zone on the backside of the webpage, where all dissidents will be severely chastised.
6:54 p.m.
Jan 3, '10
Glen...LOL...I even picked out a special tune, just for them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3Z8Oa7E3Y
Now back on topic....
I don't see how one can avoid the seemingly obvious conclussion that Carla is placing Brian (and Rogers) to the LEFT of tea bagging conservatives with that sentence.
Indeed. Duyck, Rogers and Brian aren't, that I know of, rootin-tootin, death-panel screeching, tax-dodging teabaggers. They're conservatives (Duyck classifies himself as such the story, in fact) who happen to do a lot of rubber stamping for big business lobbyists and development.
7:44 p.m.
Jan 3, '10
"Liberal,""moderate" and "conservative" are notoriously subjective terms in the abstract. It is easier to say "A is more conservative than B" than to say "A is a conservative" or "B is a liberal."
Having said that, I've always regarded Brian and Rogers as moderates and I don't consider myself a hard-right conservative.
8:09 p.m.
Jan 3, '10
I think Jack raises a good point which seems to me to be akin to what Carla's saying. Not only are those terms subjective depending on the context (social conservatives v. fiscal conservatives) but they are also terms that change with time.
Case in point being Richard Nixon. He was considered a hard-right conservative in his day but today's "conservatives" would disavow him as a liberal or RINO or some such.
Also, the rise of NeoCons triggered the rise of the less well known "paleo-conservatives" who were disgusted by revisionist definitions of what conservatism means. Which really just harkened back to what the term meant when Nixon was a player. Pat Buchanan being perhaps the most famous "paleo-conservative".
Back to the post at hand... Everyone seems to be getting hung up on how Brian and Duyck are characterized. But Jill Smith's characterization of Strader as a "liberal" in Carla's linked Oregonian piece begs the same basic question, just from the other end of the spectrum.
Jan 3, '10
I don't see how one can avoid the seemingly obvious conclussion that Carla
Is a "conclussion" where you jump on an idea so fast that you hurt your brain? :-)
Jan 3, '10
I always thought that decent jobs and a house over one's head at a decent price were progressive ideas. Guess I'm wrong. It must be more important to protect a farmer who grows ornamental shrubs.
9:40 p.m.
Jan 3, '10
LOL something like that, Michael.
12:21 a.m.
Jan 4, '10
Jack, are "moderate" and "conservative" subject to context? Is it possible that Tom Brian was a moderate in the legislature, but a conservative on the Washington County Commission?
Jan 4, '10
Carla,
I like your style, I like your style more than any other blogger I can think of. You are honest and unapologetic in your hit pieces on politicians. Whereas most would 'criticize' with the "I may work with them when they are in power" thought behind every one of their fingertips, you are a slayer through and through.
As for the usual 30+ responses to yours posts, you should be damn glad. You are hitting home almost every time.
Continue the good work and riot that ensues.
Jan 4, '10
Carla, the forever knee jerk.
Your familiarity with Washington County is either miniscule or you are once again simply making up things.
The only people that would consider Tom Brian and Roy Rogers consrvative are their mothers.
Both have been only one step away from every other Metro clone and idea. This single divergence from what you declare is needed for urban and rural reserve labeling is of little significance. The new labeling is just another tool for obstruction anyway. Hardly a useful planning quide.
Bottom line is, your attempt to smear Brian and Rogers as being conservative is a hoot.
They've supported every single central planning scheme and boondoggle cooked up including WES, the Round, TODs. TIF, Metro Centers/corridors, smart growth etc.
Now they sway from your far lefty extreme obstructionism and they're out of line?
Typical.
9:13 a.m.
Jan 4, '10
Your familiarity with Washington County is either miniscule or you are once again simply making up things.
LOL..I guess living in Washington County for 15 years doesn't count, eh Richard? :) And yeah, I definitely have a reputation for just "making things up". I never back up what I say, right?
Tom Brian, Roy Rogers and Andy Duyck are conservatives. They like big development and corporate money. Washington County is currently an homage to their strip malls, cookie-cutter Arbor-esque housing developments (where you have to either hike 2 miles to the nearest shop while trying to duck oncoming traffic or take your bike and hope you aren't mowed down) and downtown cores that suffer and are choked off because of it.
Don't even get me started on The Round--which was another rubber stamp, big developer project.
Incidentally Richard, based on your other comments at this blog--I'd say you're making my point on the Brian/Duyck/Rogers "moderate" label.
Jan 4, '10
Arrrghhh. Lots of people are happy with strip malls, big box stores, and Arbor-style developments, especially those with kids. I'm not one of them, but the suburbs exist for a reason. That's why there are choices: live in the city with all the benefits and drawbacks that it provides or live elsewhere with the different benefits and drawbacks.
9:59 a.m.
Jan 4, '10
Michael:
That's an interesting point. Perhaps there some people who are happy with that set up. But it would seem not so many of them are in Washington County.
Or at least, that's what they're telling the Washington County Commission when they show up in droves to meetings to testify against more big development.
Jan 4, '10
I'm always confused about what is "big development" in WA county. Are Intel and Nike, or do you just mean home builders? I never can remember which it is.
I hope it's not home builders. What can be nicer than building homes?
"Vote DP; It's easier than thinking!"
11:05 a.m.
Jan 4, '10
Jack, are "moderate" and "conservative" subject to context? Is it possible that Tom Brian was a moderate in the legislature, but a conservative on the Washington County Commission?
I do think it's possible that someone can be moderate in one position and conservative in another, just as someone can be moderate at one point in his or her life and conservative at another. Personally, I don't think Tom Brian as really changed. I just think on that board of commissioners, Tom is on the more conservative side.
Here in Eugene we have a city council that locals tend to describe as four progressives and four conservatives. But six of them are Democrats, and one of the so-called conservative Democrats has considered running for the legislature as a Democrat. His predecessor in that council seat, Nancy Nathanson, is now in the legislature and certainly not a conservative, although when she and Kitty Piercy ran for an open mayor's seat, Nathanson was painted as the conservative candidate.
I know we fall back on these terms as useful shorthand, but sometimes I think it confuses as much as it enlightens.
Jan 4, '10
"I know we fall back on these terms as useful shorthand, but sometimes I think it confuses as much as it enlightens."
Thanks, Jack. Striking a blow for the idea that labels short circuit thought.
Gov. Atiyeh once said that he entered office as a conservative and left as a moderate--he hadn't changed, the political spectrum had.
He was the last Republican Gov. of the the 20th century here in Oregon. He held regular press conferences. He did many good things both in public and behind the scenes (had to have been involved to know what he had done).
It would be interesting if the "conservatives " here were to study his record and decide what label applied.
And they might want to think about finding someone like him to run statewide--they might actually have a chance of winning if their candidate actually appealed to those who don't vote straight party Republican.
11:26 a.m.
Jan 4, '10
I do think it's possible that someone can be moderate in one position and conservative in another, just as someone can be moderate at one point in his or her life and conservative at another. Personally, I don't think Tom Brian as really changed. I just think on that board of commissioners, Tom is on the more conservative side.
He's on the "conservative side" for the residents of Washington Co, frankly. Which is why the label of "moderate" by the O reporter is that much more egregious. Commissioners Rogers and Duyck are at least as conservative. In fact, Duyck labels himself as such in the piece.
It's just flat lazy journalism.
11:31 a.m.
Jan 4, '10
You're right, LT. In fact, before winning the governorship in 1978, Atiyeh knocked off the "moderate" candidate Clay Myers in 1974. The day after the primary, Governor Tom McCall blasted Atiyeh and "his wrecking crew in the Senate" for blocking a lot of his legislative agenda.
I understand how one's ideological placement can change because I voted for Atiyeh in the Republican primaries in both 1974 and 1978 (against McCall and Roger Martin) precisely because he was the "conservative" candidate as I then understood that term. Today, I would support an Atiyeh-like candidate as the "moderate" choice.
Jan 4, '10
Jack, you have no idea how many people who remember Atiyeh would love to see a GOP as intelligent as it was back in those days.
Where are the giants like Atiyeh, Myers, McCall? Have the RINO crowd run them all out of the party? Do the folks currently in the GOP realize how many of us who admired Vic, Clay, and Tom quit paying attention to the GOP of the RINO crowd. Actually, some of us were told back 30 years ago (when Tom was still alive), "we don't want your kind" because McCall supporters were independent thinkers and they didn't want that.
Add in Mary Alice Ford (beat up by the RINO crowd--didn't someone tell her she belonged to the wrong church or some dumb thing?) and that should be the map for being competitive again.
It has gotten to the point that there are few Republicans I will listen to anymore. Frank Morse I will always listen to (agree or not). Jackie Winters deserves more respect for her long service on Ways and Means than she is often given credit for.
There currently seems to be a majority party actually discussing reality and specifics of issues, and a minority party telling us we should think like them and not ask questions.
Which is too bad. Clash of ideas between 2 intelligent parties could bring some new creative ideas. No party has monopoly on all the right answers. And supermajority can lead some to believe the voters don't matter, everything can be decided in closed caucus and voters are just spectators.
The Berger/ Telfer "THESE ARE BAD TAXES but don't ask us for credible alternatives which could actually gain the votes to pass" crowd are not helping Republicans gain more respect.
If Republicans were smart, they would find a primary challenger for Kim Thatcher. The NY 23rd Cong. special election result has given some Republicans new respect for contested primaries.
It will be 8 years this fall since the "tough on crime no new taxes" candidate for Gov. lost. Isn't it time to go in a new direction?
Jan 4, '10
Carla,
If your next BS is that Round wasn't and isn't driven by the left wing smart growth/TOD/Metro bullshit then you'll be consistent. It's that alternative to the boogeyman expansion/sprawl that's supposed to be a good substitution. But it's not.
Same goes for every other lefty land use and transportation fantasy/fraud. It's your liberal democrat establishment which has perpertrated all of it. Including SoWa/Tram and the rest of the boondoggles devouring billions.
Your distortions know no limits.
Yeah LOL. And yeah, you do have a reputation for just "making things up".
The private developments like the Crossings, Tanasborne and Bridgeport are all successfull while all of the heavily tax subsidized Round and other TODs are not.
Those are your liberal democrats planning schemes.
Tom Brian, Roy Rogers and Andy Duyck went along ith all of them.
The private "big development and corporate money" is private and has nothing to do with policy making. Unless you expect elected to block everything like Walmart?
Esentially all of the tri-county region is an homage to strip malls, cookie-cutter Arbor-esque housing developments. The worst seas of residential asphalt, concrete and roofs are the more recent Metro mandated higher density subdivisions, row houses and infills.
Older neighborhoods are far preferable.
Yeah most of the region is a bussling auto oriented urban/suburban form. The last 30 years of planning hasn't accomplished the utopia at all. Quite the contrary it is chaos. But many billions have been diverted to subsidize the failed schemes.
Again, there was no "conservative" objecting to them.
I suppose you think Bridgeport Village should have been prohibited? Too much driving?
Your silly conformity to the downtown core enamor is pathetic. All that drives is the massive Urban Renewal tax/debt funded, mixed use planner's schemes with fat cat developers you pretend to disdain.
And as if people don't drive to downtown cores?
What a phony you are.
No you don't want to get started on The Round. You only want to mislabel it and move on.
Incidentally Carla, based on your other comments at this blog--I'd say you're the worst source for what is or isn't conservative.
Your progressive, liberal and moderate establishment is in the process of expanding the TOD/Round/WES/SoWa/Light Rail agenda which wastes billions while enriching developers and failing miserably to acheive the utopia.
1:15 p.m.
Jan 4, '10
I voted for Atiyeh in the Republican primaries in both 1974 and 1978...precisely because he was the "conservative" candidate as I then understood that term.
Today, I would support an Atiyeh-like candidate as the "moderate" choice.
<hr/>Interesting point Jack. Seems that you agree that the entire discussion, subjective though it may be, has clearly migrated to the Right in the past couple of decades.
1:18 p.m.
Jan 4, '10
he private developments like the Crossings, Tanasborne and Bridgeport are all successfull while all of the heavily tax subsidized Round and other TODs are not.
Apparently you haven't been out to Streets of Tanasbourne for in some time, if ever. A good number of empty storefronts out there. Several for quite awhile.
And as if people don't drive to downtown cores?
Of course they do. But one actually has to have stuff down there worth going getting to. That's why the urban and rural reserves process is so frustrating. Lots of needed infill and restructuring of the downtown cores of Hillsboro and Beaverton (especially Beaverton) should be done before adding more land, especially foundation farmland to the urban reserves.
The point isn't necessarily that people shouldn't drive to get there. It's that the shouldn't HAVE TO. But then that doesn't fit in with the conservative, big development scheme--you guys have never been much for choice.
1:19 p.m.
Jan 4, '10
Seems that you agree that the entire discussion, subjective though it may be, has clearly migrated to the Right in the past couple of decades.
BINGO, Pat.
2:20 p.m.
Jan 4, '10
Interesting point Jack. Seems that you agree that the entire discussion, subjective though it may be, has clearly migrated to the Right in the past couple of decades.
Actually, I think the political spectrum has stretched both on the right and the left. If Clinton had proposed Obama's health care plan in 1994 he wouldn't have received nearly the criticism from the left that Obama has. In 2000, Al Gore was praised by the left for supporting civil unions for same-sex couples even though he opposed same-sex marriage. In 2008, Clinton and Obama were attacked by the left for holding the same positions.
Jan 4, '10
Whichever way on the political spectrum this person or that person leans...or however the Oregonian chances to characterize them...what I, as a Washington County resident am more interested in, is that a high quality of life for everyone in the county is either secured or sustained as increased population growth is accommodated.
An addition of more urban reserves doesn't seem like a good idea, unless, for example, it's in the form of airspace over places such as the building complexes the high tech industry built on land Washington County made 'affordable' to them. The high tech industry commonly commits acres of land around their workplaces for surface level parking. How often do they build housing on this land as well, that could provide housing for their employees?
The Round...for the last 2-3 weeks, half of that complex has been entirely covered in black screen cloth. Must be something living there.
Jan 5, '10
Beware of any journalist's statement that begins with In reality.
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