OR-GOV: More of this please.

Carla Axtman

And by more of this, I mean more videos of people's reaction to Chris Dudley's anti-minimum wage stance.

Good stuff.

Comments

  • (Show?)

    Carla, I agree. I think when the public hears other "ordinary people" weigh in, it can be more compelling than voice overs on commercials telling us the other candidate is the anti-Christ.

  • (Show?)

    This Ad cuts through all of the Dudley obfuscation about his fake concern for average Oregonians. Is anyone running this Ad on TV?

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    "I don't know what a training wage is but I think it's pretty ridiculous."

    How can you think is ridiculous if you don't know what it is?

    If you think you have the moral high ground on this issue, why do you have to take his comments out of context? Show people the whole video.

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      How is his words being taken out of context Michael?

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      Because the training wage would undoubtedly be LOWER. You don't have to know what it is exactly, to know that's ridiculous.

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      "i don't know what it is" as in, "how low will it be? who gets stuck with it? what are the rules?"

      "training wage" is a bait-and-switch, or, rather, a pick-and-roll (like Malone used to eat up Duds with). it's meant to show concern for businesses but it's real intent is to undermine the minimum wage, and that undermines the opportunity for more people to earn a living wage.

    • (Show?)

      I know what it is - it's fricking SCAM! Wake the f%$k up!

    • (Show?)

      The "training wage" reduction is a poison pill intended to exempt seasonal workers from qualifying for a minimum wage.

    • (Show?)

      Q: Do you support a training wage to help get young and inexperienced workers job skill OR do you want to maintain the status quo of obscenely high unemeployment for Oregon's youth?

      • (Show?)

        A job skill like waiting tables?

        Cut the crap. You think we're so dumb as to believe the "learn the job for starvation wages" isn't just an excuse for greed? You think some bar owner who has customers is going to shut down his bar because he has to pay low wages, rather than obscenely low?

        The high unemployment America has, has everything to do with Republicans writing tax-giveaways into the law for companies who outsource, along with lax import laws which allow China to sell lead-toys to our children (which would never even be allowed to be manufactured here). This has hurt Oregon especially hard because we are primarily a manufacturing state.

        The solution is to reverse these GOP policies on a national level, and within the state of Oregon, to focus on building new export-oriented industries based on higher education. That requires something higher than the barebones tax structure we have, because entrepreneurial research universities aren't cheap.

        Keeping the minimum wage high also puts enough money in people's pocket so that the next kid with a brilliant idea might be able to see it through, rather than exhaust himself working three jobs just to make ends meet.

        • (Show?)

          Do you understand how a training wage program is usually configured? (Clearly not, but take a crack at it)

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          Your a very angry man aren't you Steven? let me ask you this: to what degree do you think that unions muscling synthetically high wage rates in this country have forced companies to take advantage of the options that Clinton's NAFTA offers them by exporting jobs to more business friendly countries in order to stay profitable and stay in business. It's not greed all the time some times it's survival! Just like a parasite left unchecked and allowed to feed at the expense of it's host will eventually kill it (UAW-Automakers for example) you can't stomp your feet for exorbitant wage rates then sit around scratching your head when the jobs go elsewhere. No wonder your frustrated

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        Umm ... yes. And have you stopped beating your wife?

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        You DO realize that employers will abuse the rate, saying every job starts at a "training rate" even if someone starts a new job with experience. Or would you like the GOVERNMENT to weigh in on what constitutes "experience" in an industry?

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          Most of the research I have found on training wages around the country follow these basic principals:

          New hire under the age of 25 Pay is 85% of min wage Training wage only applicable for 90 calendar days, then full min wage or higher Worker may only be paid training wage for 180 calendar days in total.(This means they can't go from employer to employer making training wage) *No new hire position may replace and existing position(meaning training wage positions are in ADDITION to regular number of workers)

      • (Show?)

        I don't support the question being posed as an either/or. I'm just not given to accepting two bad choices.

  • (Show?)

    Sorry, Michael. The clip and the editing are fair. Sometimes the topic is so absurd and obvious on its face and that's what you are seeing.

    Unless you feel as Dudley does in the clip that we voters just "don't understand".

  • (Show?)

    I hope Kitz hits him hard on this during the debate.

  • (Show?)

    I wonder if Mr. Pingree would stop posting on Blue Oregon (or at least cut back) if everyone stopped responding. I'm all for diversity of thought and thoughtful debate, but besides being so numerous, many of Mr. Pingree's posts seem to be made for the sole purpose of being a contrarian. Plus, I'd like to read at least one comment thread on Blue Oregon without seeing the same guy directing the debate. Seriously, how does anyone have that much free time?

    • (Show?)
      1. Currently, 5 of the last 10 threads have no comments from me

      2. Is it possible you only notice my comments when I DISAGREE with you and you don't notice them when I agree with your POV.

      3. There are two topic discussed here that I disagree with the BO majority, the Oregon Governors race(although I have never said to vote for Dudley) and business taxes. It just so happens that the governors race is front and center right now.

      • (Show?)

        last point didn't post:

        1. Dylan: if having someone who disagrees with you on occasion bothers you so much, I will leave BO forever. All you have to do is say so.
    • (Show?)

      Seriously, how does anyone have that much free time?

      Mr. Pingree seems obsessed with the idea that businesses in Oregon are struggling in this economy. Perhaps his own business would be doing better if he wasn't spending so much time posting comments on blogs. (Especially off-topic comments on blogs.)

    • (Show?)

      I guess I disagree with Michael more often than not, but if even one out of five or ten Pingree Gambits makes anybody stop to think while formulating an answer, he's a valuable counter to the inevitable group reenforcement.....

  • (Show?)

    No conservative has ever been able to explain to me how we will improve the economy by reducing people's incomes. If there's anybody out there who would like to give it a shot, be my guest.

  • (Show?)

    I'm curious as to which Republican said: "I support cutting people's wages." Or one who runs on a platform to lower wages. (And just because someone doesn't agree with increasing the minimum wage, doesn't mean they support cutting wages or want people to earn low wages.)

    I seriously would like an answer that's not full of political rhetoric.

  • (Show?)

    This video is now a lead story on KGW evening news: http://www.kgw.com/news/YouTube-video-suggest-Dudley-wants-to-cut-minimum-wage-103899379.html

  • (Show?)

    To be fair, the federally mandated minimum wage = $7.25 per hour while Oregon's is currently set at $8.40, one of the highest in the nation. This is with a Democratically controlled House, Senate and White House. I don't necessarily disagree with current Oregon policy, but it seems to me like savvy political campaign fodder in a state with one of the highest unemployment rates. Just sayin'.

    • (Show?)

      dude, the MW is going up because the people of Oregon voted for cost of living increases in 2002. on top of everything else, Duds doesn't even seem to know the relevant law involved.

    • (Show?)

      Uh....what?

      And what do the states who have higher unemployment and lower minimum wage than us do for an encore?

      I guess it might be politically savvy to perpetuate a lie, but I'm lost as to how it's actually a good idea.

  • (Show?)

    KGW Live @ 7 just trashed this video stunt and concluded basically what I have been saying. Hope they have the segment video up later.

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      But Michael, the part where he says he "talks to restaurants" (does he talk to cars, too?) seems to me to say the same thing -- that, to him, it doesn't make sense to have people in restaurants make tips on top of minimum wage.

      • (Show?)

        Anne Yeager's report was the sloppiest journalism I have ever seen.... unless she had agreed with you then it would have been a Pulitzer prize worthy piece. I get that both liberals and teabaggers hate the media only when they disagree with you. I get that you love the Oregonian when they attack Dudley and hate them when they criticize Kitz. I get it.

        • (Show?)

          any chance you'll watch the original clip to see Duds agreeing with every point the restaurant owner made, then saying minimum wage + tips "makes no sense" and then calls for a training wage, the only purpose of which is to pay employees less than the minimum wage?

          KGW was completely wrong; they lied.

        • (Show?)

          Anne Yeager left out the detail that the restaurant owners PAC gave $90K to Chris Dudley's campaign. Do you think this is an important detail? I sure as hell do.

          Also, she's tweeting me and my husband this morning and needed clarification on the difference between the "lingo" (her word) "training wage" and "tip credit". She made assumptions on where the video came from, and then she asks my husband this morning "then who did the video come from?"

          Appalling journalism! By any standard Michael. You don't know me. I have critical thinking skills and I apply them, regardless of who the story is about.

          • (Show?)

            Does Bruce know where the video came from?

            If the PAC money concerns you, does not knowing who is behind the edited video concern you? Or do you know?

    • (Show?)

      You know what I don't get michael, is that this unedited video has been on Blue Oregon for a week and it was posted on Youtube for a week as well, BY dems. Did you actually not watch any of the videos or are you simply pretending to be outraged now because KGW confirms what we all know ... context matters (hell even KGW removed the context when they edited the segment). You've had it for over a week and somehow chosen to ignore the simple fact that a questioner asked Dudley a question about how min wage is hurting OR, he responded with his agreement and said 'we need to do something about that" and then went on to say that restaurant owners had told him.... "insert quote here".

      Want to know a few reasons why you should vote for Kitz?

      1.) he vetoed 5 GOP legislature budgets that included deficit spending. 2.) GOP wanted to raid School funds to pay for spending, he wouldn't allow it. 3.) We don't have time for on the job training. 4.) Dudley wants to cut $800M in revenue on the expectation that "projected job increases" will make up the difference. 5.) Kitz wants to pay down debt. 6.) Kitz actually has a record... some not so good, some great. BUT he actually has a history that you can go look at and decide if you agree or disagree. 7.) Dudley has avoided every debate since Alley handed him his ass in primaries. Going so far as to use his family to lie his way out of the ONPA debates. If you've been following this issue you know that is true. 8.) Kitz has attended EVERY debate. I believe it's been about 5 at this point... at each one he's presented himself to the press for extended periods to answer any questions. 9.) Kitz can think on his feet. Dudley appear to fear defending his "plans" or attacking Kitz's in a forum where he might be cross questioned on his answers.

      You know what, as a progressive I can understand someone preferring Allen Alley over Kitz. Like Kitz he is experienced. He cares about Oregon, He understands how to get things done. While I disagree with most of his positions... he seems principled and qualified.

      Dudley... not so much.

      • (Show?)

        Please go to this BO Story:Chris Dudley and the minimum wage "tip credit"

        and look at the first non Kari comment.

        • (Show?)

          And no comment about the reasons Bruce listed on why people should vote for Kitzhaber?

          • (Show?)

            First I am commenting too much, now not enough.......you guys make my head spin

            • (Show?)

              But Michael, you keep complaining about there being nothing about reasons to vote FOR Kitzhaber. Then, when someone provides some, you clam up.

              Odd.

              • (Show?)

                Very well. I give mad props to Bruce for at least stating some reasons why a voter should vote for Kitz.

                I found some reasons why I might vote for Kitz as well today.

                1. He supports lowering the capital gains rate

                2. He supports lowering the personal income tax rate imposed by M66

                3. He supports lowering the corporate income tax rate imposed by M67

                4. He considers a sales tax a viable option in reforming our taxes.

                5. He wants to reform the BETC

                6. He would consider means testing the tax deduction for seniors medical expenses

  • (Show?)

    Look at the original post on this very site:

    http://www.blueoregon.com/2010/09/457000/

    The FULL clip that the Dems posted has been on You Tube since September 20th. Anne Yeager edited the full clip too! She cut out the question and Dudley saying "I agree". It's like freakin' Fox News.

    The press is pissing down our backs and telling us it's raining.

    I'm on Twitter this evening sending all this to @TheSquare @AnneYeagerKGW @StephStricklen

    On a side note. I wish the media would put as much effort in finding out the identity of that tracker that disrupted the Urban League forum as they did in giving Dudley his opportunity to backtrack off this quote. Anyone know who that guy is?

  • (Show?)

    http://www.youtube.com/user/OregonDemocrats#p/a/u/1/GQfZRTb2g64

    for starters, listen to the entire piece as originally posted on YT. a member of the audience asks a long question; Duds says "i agree with you". he says the minimum wage+tips for "waitresses" is wrong, and he calls for a training wage. it's all there, easy to hear. (he also says most Oregonians are too dumb to understand the issue.)

    KGW cut the video so it looks like Duds isn't saying that -- and then they give HIM the rebuttal without talking to anyone from the Dem side. seriously. if this reporter is looking for a gig with Fox News, this will help her. the original video is clear, but KGW distorts it to make it seem otherwise.

    it's been a long time since i've seen a journalistic fail of this magnitude in the Pdx area. KGW did an atrocious job. watch the original clip & then tell KGW what a terrible hack job they did.

    • (Show?)

      Is it your contention that the waitress statement was Dudley's original thought or was he repeating what a restaurant owner told him.

      If it's the former, that just isn't supported by the transcripts. From the DPO transcript of the full video:

      ...you talk to restaurants, restaurants will say listen, we’ve got less employees than we would otherwise because of this and it doesn’t make sense that our – our waitresses are getting tips plus the highest minimum wage in the country where our – those in the back – there’s a dispri-disproportionate amount of compensation,...

      • (Show?)

        Is it your contention that Dudley was disagreeing with the restaurant owners? Is it your contention that Dudley DOES NOT think that waitresses in Oregon recieve a disproportionate amount of compensation...?

        This is quite a thin hair you're attempting to split.

        • (Show?)

          I don't think he is agreeing nor disagreeing. The questioner made a statement about, among other things, OR high min wage. Dudley agreed that the high min wage hurts hiring and gave an example of a statement made by a third party to support his statement.

          Heck, it's not like he said the state was ungovernable or that he supported a sales tax.

          • (Show?)

            I guess the part where he says, "I agree with you on that issue..." is the part you didn't listen to on the video..?

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              "Well it’s not a – it’s a – I agree with you on – on – on that issue" was the first words out of Dudley's mouth. Given that there was no mention of waitresses or tips at this point in the video, I don't see why you are confused on the issue. He was agreeing with the audience member, who made no mention of waitresses nor tips.

              • (Show?)
                "Well it’s not a – it’s a – I agree with you on – on – on that issue" was the first words out of Dudley's mouth.

                He was agreeing with someone who said that our state has a very high minimum wage and thinks that’s difficult for businesses and that it also attracts people from other states to come to our state that are the wrong end of the labor pool and if Dudley shared that philosophy.

                Dudley said yes he agreed.

                • (Show?)

                  there was also something about it hurting our youth.

                  I have never contended that he disagreed with the questioner. I only thing I have disagreed with the the attempt to link a third party statement to Dudley as his own.

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                    When he's agreeing with the question and using the third party statement as reasoning for his agreement--then "voila!"--it's fair and appropriate to assign that to him.

                    It would be one thing if Dudley didn't believe in what he was paraphrasing. But its clear from his words that he does.

        • (Show?)

          Funny we haven't discussed Kitz plan to cut capital gains and to lower the new M66/67 tax increases.

          Funny indeed...

  • (Show?)

    Hey, look, you got PWNED

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    go on, Geoff, show us where Duds does NOT say he thinks the minimum wage is too high. pls. point it out specifically. where in Duds' original statement does he not say that?

    Geoff? hm?

  • (Show?)

    There's no doubt the video producers cut off the attribution to the "..it makes no sense" comment. It's clear Dudley was citing complaints he has heard from restaurant owners, and the editors left the impression those were HIS actual words.

    Whether Dudley agrees with the restaurant owners or not will continue to be argued. But having a statement attributed to someone else edited to appear as one's own is simply dishonest.

    For example, President Obama says, "You know, I once heard an oil executive tell me, 'I want to drill every drop of oil out of ANWAR'." So the editors go to work and the finished product is:

    President Obama on YouTube saying, "...I want to drill every drop of oil out of ANWAR."

    Perhaps PolitiFact can take a look at this ad and give it a rating. I suspect it won't even earn a Barely True.

    • (Show?)

      It can "continue to be argued" all day long, but the fact that Dudley says, "I agree with you on that issue.." might clear it up, wouldn't you say, Bruce?

      • (Show?)

        Carla, my point (and I beleve the main point of the KGW piece) is that today's politics are being driven increasingly by internet posts that are easy to produce and easier to manipulate.

        Dudley himself claims he does not support lowering the minimum wage, but that won't convince his Blue Oregon detractors and misses the point anyway.

        Frankly, for me the issue is less about minimum wages and more about how easy it is to capture and edit video today to make a person say almost anything.

        That was Anne Yeager's point, which she made clear in her closing remarks.

        • (Show?)

          Bruce: I'm aware of her point. I'm also aware that Yeager herself didn't use the full clip. Irony, eh?

          Dudley says on the full clip that he agrees with the questioner who contended that Oregon Minimum Wage is too high and problematic. That's good enough for me and most of the rest of Blue Oregon's readers. I'm curious as to why Dudley's own words on tape aren't good enough for you. Or for Yeager, for that matter.

          • (Show?)

            Challenging Chris Dudley's position on the minimum wage is absolutely fair game. Using his own words in context is also fair game.

            However, in the 1:15 long segment at the top of this thread, unsuspecting citizens were shown a juicy quote edited out of context to make the restaurant owners beef with the minimum wage appear to be Dudley's own words. (I agree the short statement about a training wage is Dudley's own words and position.)

            Compounding the deception, the unsuspecting citizens shown this clip react as hoped by the producers. They clearly react to a deceptive video in which they see and hear Dudley apparently gripe about waitresses making both minimum wage and tips.

            But that was a manufactured lie, and no one here on Blue Oregon is willing to admit it.

            The prevailing excuse here seems to be, "Well even if the clip was edited out of context, it still represents Dudley's view, so no harm in a little selective editing."

            In other words, the end (showing Dudley's position on the minimum wage) justifies the means (editing a video to attribute to Dudley someone else's words).

            And that, Carla, is what is wrong with Oregon's current political climate.

            • (Show?)

              I would say what is wrong about today's political climate is the dishonesty and distrust that arises when a candidate takes one position with a special interest group, and then publicly denies or obfuscates that actual position he took. He speaks with forked tongue and tries to spin it, with the help of trashy media reporting by KGW.

              • (Show?)

                Does the fact that Kitz wants to cut capital gains rates, views a sales tax as a viable solution to our tax problems, and wants to lower the tax rates on individuals and corporations that M66/67 imposed concern you at all?

                • (Show?)

                  As Bruce pointed out earlier...

                  Some reasons why you and everyone else should vote for Kitzhaber:

                  1.) he vetoed 5 GOP legislature budgets that included deficit spending.

                  2.) GOP wanted to raid School funds to pay for spending, he wouldn't allow it.

                  3.) We don't have time for on the job training.

                  4.) Dudley wants to cut $800M in revenue on the expectation that "projected job increases" will make up the difference.

                  5.) Kitz wants to pay down debt.

                  6.) Kitz actually has a record... some not so good, some great. BUT he actually has a history that you can go look at and decide if you agree or disagree.

                  7.) Dudley has avoided every debate since Alley handed him his ass in primaries. Going so far as to use his family to lie his way out of the ONPA debates. If you've been following this issue you know that is true.

                  8.) Kitz has attended EVERY debate. I believe it's been about 5 at this point... at each one he's presented himself to the press for extended periods to answer any questions.

                  9.) Kitz can think on his feet. Dudley appear to fear defending his "plans" or attacking Kitz's in a forum where he might be cross questioned on his answers.

                  • (Show?)

                    Does the fact that Kitz wants to cut capital gains rates, views a sales tax as a viable solution to our tax problems, and wants to lower the tax rates on individuals and corporations that M66/67 imposed concern you at all?

                    • (Show?)

                      I'll answer that: of course it does. He's not been my dream candidate--not even close.

                      But the alternative, in my view, is worse.

                      • (Show?)

                        I just want to thank you for at least answering this. I have posted it many times and everyone has ignored it. I must say I have so much more respect for you now that you are open to an honest critique of your candidate.

                        Thank you!

                        Now if I can just get a certain story about a certain ex-Governors appointment of a known Camas tax dodger past the "editors" we might be on to something.

                        • (Show?)

                          As long as you post your concerns about the Governor's race on a thread about the Governor's race, you're all good.

                          • (Show?)

                            For what it's worth, I concede I was out of bounds on the "spanning the state" post, but on the "bruunschools" post the claim that Dudley was a tax dodger was in the second paragraph, thereby opening the door to my response.

                            Wanting to be a team player, I will try to confine my Kitz comments to pieces attacking Dudley, since I am sure we are due for another one soon :-)

                    • (Show?)

                      those are the only good reasons I have heard to vote for the guy (minus the sales tax) too bad he sold his integrity to the highest bidder too many times to be trusted

            • (Show?)

              Dudley was paraphrasing restaurant owners in an effort to cement his point about minimum wage, responding in agreement with the questioner about the issue.

              The idea that its somehow wrong to edit a clip where Dudley's paraphrasing actually AGREES with his articulated position is ludicrous. And that this is what you've boiled down to that "is what is wrong with Oregon's current political climate" is just flat insulting.

        • (Show?)

          We need to wrap you in copper wire and place you between two magnets. The amount of spinning would be a great renewable energy source.

    • (Show?)

      If Dudley is using a third party to back up his contention, isn't that AGREEMENT?

      You can't have it both ways.

      • (Show?)

        You continue to focus on Dudley's position re: the minimum wage while ignoring the disingenious editing of this video to attribute to Dudley himself words he clearly attributed to disgruntled restaurant owners.

        I'll easily concede your point that agreeing with someone else's position assumes you hold the same position. Happens all the time in politics.

        But will you agree that it is dishonest and wrong to edit a recorded statement in such a way that a person appears to say something actually attributed to someone else?

        • (Show?)

          And you're ignoring the part where Dudley says he "agrees" with the guy questioning minimum wage.

          If the editing of the video keeps what Dudley was trying to get across in the proper context, then the editing is appropriate. In this case, it did.

          Too bad Yeager didn't bother to put the ENTIRE video in her broadcast.

          • (Show?)

            Carla: A better question is why didn't the producers of the video in your post use the entire video or at least the "answer" to the "question" instead of hijacking someone else's words and attributing them to Dudley?

            Why stoop to such deception, when apparently they had Dudley agreeing to a question?

            Answer: Saying "I agree" isn't nearly as inflamatory as the hacked and edited restaurant owners' quote.

            • (Show?)

              Dudley was agreeing with someone who said that our state has a very high minimum wage and thinks that’s difficult for businesses and that it also attracts people from other states to come to our state that are the wrong end of the labor pool and if Dudley shared that philosophy.

              Dudley said yes he agreed and then repeated a false statement the Oregon had the highest min. wage in the nation in the process.

              • (Show?)

                Dudley said yes he agreed and then repeated a false statement the Oregon had the highest min. wage in the nation in the process.

                Unless you can name United States 51-57, please find something more substantial to nit pick. This one is just lame.

              • (Show?)

                Not to mention ..Oregon does have a very high minimum wage which does hurt the employment level in this state. I don't think anyone moves here for the higher minimum wage but I assure you there are businesses who move away from here, or never move here at all because of it

        • (Show?)

          It isn't disingenuous at all. He agreed with the questioner's assertion that min. wage was a problem, brought up what he claims restaurant owners are saying as evidence about this "problem". What is disingenuous is you and others trying to claim the Dudley disagrees with the premise that min. wage is a problem for Oregon.

        • (Show?)

          it's the any means to an end that kept BO from fully vetting the Kitzhaber soft dollar play with bidwell, the overt lying in the mailers sent out across Oregon falsely attributing the idea of a 30% tax to people who have never said what they claimed or supported that idea...The left has blinders on whenever it's their people caught breaking the law and the rules. Look how quickly assaulting someone in a church suddenly became OK when their people were throwing the punches. as soon as you have to start to rationalize matters of honesty and integrity and right and wrong in order to accommodate the candidate you support you need to really take a good hard look at your own values and ask yourself why? The minority progressives in this state are so incensed by the fact that after 20 years of left wing lunacy driving this state that the people of oregon are no longer willing to respond to name calling and manipulated truths and decided to take their chances trying something new and honest and forthright for a change they have no choice but to believe in. You can't manipulate the truth or the voters forever. hey didn't Lincoln (another great republican) say something like that once? Keep posting Michael I don't always agree with you but your input helps to steer the discussion away from the personal invective and back towards the issues that the BO staff is either unwilling or unable to do. I think your commentary is a huge benefit to this board and possibly the only thing in some cases that makes palatable

      • (Show?)

        Does the fact that Kitz wants to cut capital gains rates, views a sales tax as a viable solution to our tax problems, and wants to lower the tax rates on individuals and corporations that M66/67 imposed concern you at all?

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